Who will lead the line against Watford?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

What more do I want from a manager? Well...promotion fairly obviously.

Maybe that’s too much to expect, I’m not sure.

As far as Lampard is concerned...the truth is that he used his contacts and reputation to attract three loan players, including one current England international, but beyond that his transfer dealings weren’t at all good and, if memory serves, he took us just one match further than Rowett had the season before.

I suspect we might remember the season too fondly. It wasn’t that great or that entertaining. Yes we got to Wembley and it was fun to win at Old Trafford and Elland Road, but overall the season, and the football played, weren’t a patch on 2013-14. We were horribly second best to Villa twice that season, flattered by the eventual 2-1 Wembley scoreline and then done no favours at all by Lampard’s dilly dallying over whether he was staying or not. That’s how I remember it anyway.

People call Rowett a ‘snake’ but at least he just walked away...bit like Jewell before him. The way McClaren and Lampard left did us a lot more harm...imo.

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Frank asked for and was given permission by Mel to speak to Chelsea, it did take time for Chelsea to confirm the appointment but was that franks fault or Chelsea's? Either way if you were going into a new job, you would want to dot the i's and cross the t's before agreeing it.

Plus Mel got £4 million compo so not a bad deal.

It was a hell of a lot better football than we have so far seen under Cocu, not that is saying much! Only one game better?! Oh come on thats really splitting hairs and disingenuous!

Not sure what your beef is with frank, he had exactly the same set of circumstances that Cocu had and did a hell of a lot better, I mean fancy a manager using his contacts to get players in, really? I've never heard of such a thing.

Its a shame Mel didn't appoint a decent manager then, someone who knew this division and maybe had contacts that could bring some players in, although I seem to recall we had loans last season, so not sure what point your making there.

How Frank is to blame for the current mess is beyond me, perhaps look closer to home and Mel's influence, after all he appoints the manager and employs the people who scout etc. I'm still puzzled as to what qualities Cocu had that persuaded Mel he was the right guy for the job? Or maybe he thought he was being clever bringing in a continental manager with zilch experience of football in this country? A guy whose track record of management in europe is patchy at best.

Cocu was a mistake IMO and thats where the issue lies, hopefully he will now over this season prove me wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

I really don’t have a ‘beef’ with Lampard, Swale and I accept everything you’ve written in your first two paragraphs.

Beyond that I don’t understand your comment about ‘splitting hairs’ and being ‘disingenuous’.
Under Rowett we finished 6th with 75 points and under Lampard we finished 6th with 74 points. Those are just facts. We played one more game, admittedly at Wembley, and we lost.

The difference is that Lampard borrowed three players to get us to Wembley. If it had worked things may well be different, fact is it didn’t. Lampard left, the three loanees left and in effect there had been no team/squad building during his tenure and I can’t think of one of his actual signings that has subsequently worked out well for us.

In comparison Cocu arrived at short notice having lost the player of the previous season and the next best two as well. In addition to that, within a month, he’d also lost captain Keogh and had to deal with all the mess that went with it so...’same set of circumstances’...I hardly think so.

As I say...I have no ‘beef’ with Lampard. I just feel that some look at his season in charge through rose coloured glasses. Of the deals that have been made by any of the last three, possibly four, managers I’d argue that, although it’s early days, Cocu has made the best and that Lampard was the least successful - eg. signing FloJo and selling Pearce.

I’ve never actually tried to blame Lampard for the mess we’re in. Just suggested that he didn’t leave us in the great shape that some make out and now that he appears to have unlimited wealth to spend it’s really no easier to truly assess his genuine managerial ability.
Whether Cocu has the opportunity to demonstrate his, beyond the end of this week, remains to be seen.

Lampard signings:

Evans (crap)
Shinnie, although I don't think he signed the dotted line until shortly afterwards (crap)
FloJo (crap)
Holmes (useful)

Loans:

Wilson (good)
Mount (good)
Tomori (good)
Hamer (crap)

Outs:

Pearce (good)
Hughes? (good)
Bryson (I'm not a fan)
Russell? (good)

I can't remember all the outs, but we seemed worse off when Lampard left than when he arrived. Those 3 loans and the bounce cloud what I think was a season full of poor performances, made better by a few individual performances from the loanees. Nothing against Lampard, but I think he'd have struggled 2nd season.

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

Lampard signings:

Evans (crap)
Shinnie, although I don't think he signed the dotted line until shortly afterwards (crap)
FloJo (crap)
Holmes (useful)

Loans:

Wilson (good)
Mount (good)
Tomori (good)
Hamer (crap)

Outs:

Pearce (good)
Hughes? (good)
Bryson (I'm not a fan)
Russell? (good)

I can't remember all the outs, but we seemed worse off when Lampard left than when he arrived. Those 3 loans and the bounce cloud what I think was a season full of poor performances, made better by a few individual performances from the loanees. Nothing against Lampard, but I think he'd have struggled 2nd season.

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Fair point Adi. I’d forgotten about Holmes who was a well priced spot from a lower league club. He’s been a half decent signing who, if he was less injury prone, who have been very good.

As regards your final paragraph...I couldn’t agree more.

I think Lampard's season over achieved compared to the overall standard of play. We benefitted from a good number of 'worldy' goals from Wilson, but during an average season, will Wilson score so many 'worldies' again?

I was disappointed at the way Lampard left, out of respect to Derby, he should have sorted things out quicker. Like many Derby fans, I thought that we would have had a loan or two from Chelsea, but that didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I really don’t have a ‘beef’ with Lampard, Swale and I accept everything you’ve written in your first two paragraphs.

Beyond that I don’t understand your comment about ‘splitting hairs’ and being ‘disingenuous’.
Under Rowett we finished 6th with 75 points and under Lampard we finished 6th with 74 points. Those are just facts. We played one more game, admittedly at Wembley, and we lost.

The difference is that Lampard borrowed three players to get us to Wembley. If it had worked things may well be different, fact is it didn’t. Lampard left, the three loanees left and in effect there had been no team/squad building during his tenure and I can’t think of one of his actual signings that has subsequently worked out well for us.

In comparison Cocu arrived at short notice having lost the player of the previous season and the next best two as well. In addition to that, within a month, he’d also lost captain Keogh and had to deal with all the mess that went with it so...’same set of circumstances’...I hardly think so.

As I say...I have no ‘beef’ with Lampard. I just feel that some look at his season in charge through rose coloured glasses. Of the deals that have been made by any of the last three, possibly four, managers I’d argue that, although it’s early days, Cocu has made the best and that Lampard was the least successful - eg. signing FloJo and selling Pearce.

I’ve never actually tried to blame Lampard for the mess we’re in. Just suggested that he didn’t leave us in the great shape that some make out and now that he appears to have unlimited wealth to spend it’s really no easier to truly assess his genuine managerial ability.
Whether Cocu has the opportunity to demonstrate his, beyond the end of this week, remains to be seen.

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Yes we lost to Aston Villa 1-0, a club significantly richer than us benefitting from parachute payments in the final. Not saying Rowatt did a bad job, but he walked out on us and thought the grass was greener at Stoke.

Who knows what Lampard would ahve done in his second season? Pure conjecture. You say you have no beef with Lampard, but then said at least Rowatt walked out on us as if that behaviour was better than Lampard's? Your original post seemed to blame Lampard for where we are now.

Anyway Cocu isn't an improvement on either and we certainly aren't kicking on this season!

Wembley? 2-1 Swale.

One comment in Criticism of FL that I saw earlier was that he only succeeded through calling in favours (with loans) - but that’s what I EXPECT a manager to do, and Cocu hasn’t done it, another weakness.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Wembley? 2-1 Swale.

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If he argues it was 1-0 MA, just let it go

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Yes we lost to Aston Villa 1-0. Your original post seemed to blame Lampard for where we are now.

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No we didn’t, we lost 2-1 and no, it didn’t...what I actually said was that Lampard couldn’t be ‘absolved’ of responsibility for where we are now.

Tbh I think we’ve been largely in decline since Wembley 2014. Lots of people associated with the club have to take their share of responsibility
for that and Lampard is no exception.