Blackouts coming this winter in Uk.

When you allow an eejit like Thatcher to sell off social housing reserves, privatise everything that moves, deindustrialise the home of the Industrial Revolution, wreck the shipbuilding, mining and steel industries, what long term legacy did everyone expect?

There's only Brenda left with a few Crown Jewels, all the rest were hived off to the Tory elites' cronies.

I was really listening to what the former Lib-Dem/Green Party advocate Ms Truss had to say about her "vision" for the UK's future. I'm still waiting...

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Originally Posted by ClaretinBudapest

It is not the tax payers Sinkov, it is the tax dodgers.The 1% you mention who contribute £60 billion would be delighted if the other 2% contributed another £120 billion instead of dodging tax.To most of these people it would not make the slightest difference to their standard of living or that of their chidrens grandchildren.The west is collapsing because of the greed of the few.
It is criminal-like robbing the bank of the people.The government should spend it wiser instead of directing all their efforts to enrich themselves and their cronies but as long as there are no consequences then it will go on forever until the people go hungry.
You cannot put your hand on your heart and say it is fine for billionaires and multi-millionaires to not pay tax whilst families are having to decide to heat or eat.

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Not disputing what you say CiB, tax dodging is illegal, prosecute the dodgers, bang 'em up, ten years or more, long as you like, won't bother me. Just be careful you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater is what I'm saying. Those who contribute the £60 billion are wealthy enough to up-sticks and take their wealth and £60 billion elsewhere, if you piss them off too much.

President Hollande tried it in France not long ago, soak the rich. It didn't last long, it was a disaster, the rich just fecked off somewhere else, and next time round the French chose a different president.

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Originally Posted by sinkov

Not disputing what you say CiB, tax dodging is illegal, prosecute the dodgers, bang 'em up, ten years or more, long as you like, won't bother me. Just be careful you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater is what I'm saying. Those who contribute the £60 billion are wealthy enough to up-sticks and take their wealth and £60 billion elsewhere, if you piss them off too much.

President Hollande tried it in France not long ago, soak the rich. It didn't last long, it was a disaster, the rich just fecked off somewhere else, and next time round the French chose a different president.

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The only way to do it would be either a worldwide integrated system whereby it does not matter where they feck off to they will still be taxed.Another option would be to shut down the offshore havens.They can do it when a country threatens the dollar such as Lybia so they will be able to do it with places like the Virgin Islands and Lichtenstein IF there was the political willpower to do it.If not then the everage Joe could ask the politicians why not?

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

When you allow an eejit like Thatcher to sell off social housing reserves,

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What's a social housing reserve ? Do you mean council houses ? Can you Lefties not talk normal like the rest of us ? Do you always have to talk out of your arseholes ? >;)

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Originally Posted by sinkov

What's a social housing reserve ? Do you mean council houses ? Can you Lefties not talk normal like the rest of us ? Do you always have to talk out of your arseholes ? >;)

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You forgot the "mon ami".

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Originally Posted by sinkov

What's a social housing reserve ? Do you mean council houses ? Can you Lefties not talk normal like the rest of us ? Do you always have to talk out of your arseholes ? >;)

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I try to speak in sociological language sinkov, but anything to do with protecting our society from poverty and homelessness just goes over any self respecting Tory's head. You are no exception mon ami...

I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.

Source: Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 3 1987

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Originally Posted by sinkov

Totally at odds with the reality. We do not live in a low tax economy, nor are we heading towards one, quite the opposite.

"BUDGET 2021, UK tax burden to hit highest level since the 60s"

"The UK tax burden is set to reach its highest level since the early 1950s, the Office for Budget Responsibility revealed this week following the Budget. After Rishi Sunak raised taxes by more this year than any Chancellor has in a single year since 1993, tax revenue as a share of GDP is forecast to rise from 33.5 per cent of GDP before the Covid-19 pandemic to 36.2 per cent of GDP by 2026-27."

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Not according to the OECD Taxing wages 2022 report - we remain well below the average.

5 years ago we were paying 30.8% of our wages against the OECD average of 36% and the UK has a long history of paying less which is why we have lower investment historically e.g. failure to plan for the replacement of our nuclear power stations or rise in demand on the NHS.
Since the pandemic the average has slipped to 34.5% and we've increased slightly to 31.3%

So if you want reality, check it out here: https://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htm

But as mentioned elsewhere, it's equally important how we spend it.

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Originally Posted by ClaretinBudapest

The only way to do it would be either a worldwide integrated system whereby it does not matter where they feck off to they will still be taxed.Another option would be to shut down the offshore havens.They can do it when a country threatens the dollar such as Lybia so they will be able to do it with places like the Virgin Islands and Lichtenstein IF there was the political willpower to do it.If not then the everage Joe could ask the politicians why not?

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Having worked in the offshore finance industry for 40 years I can safely say that the so-called havens are not the real problem.

As far as the US is concerned, Delaware is the biggest tax haven in the world. Corporate America is headquartered there.

The problem is really the tax rules that are controlled by the Government. They can change them if they wish. Therein lies the problem. They don’t want to change them because they don’t want to frighten off taxpayers who are already in Britain and don’t want to deter inward investment. It is a competitive market. Wealthy people can easily move out. Corporates like Amazon look around at favourable jurisdictions - favourable in accordance with the rules created by the Government of that jurisdiction.

Inward investment (e.g. Amazon) also create employment and so on. Deter or lose that investment impacts the tax take and threatens employment.

Whilst I believe that there is a lot of corporate greed in Britain, the real problem, in my view, is that Government and its organs are outdated, bloated, inefficient and provide poor value for money (I include the NHS in that).

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Originally Posted by wanderlust

Not according to the OECD Taxing wages 2022 report - we remain well below the average.

5 years ago we were paying 30.8% of our wages against the OECD average of 36% and the UK has a long history of paying less which is why we have lower investment historically e.g. failure to plan for the replacement of our nuclear power stations or rise in demand on the NHS.
Since the pandemic the average has slipped to 34.5% and we've increased slightly to 31.3%

So if you want reality, check it out here: https://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htm

But as mentioned elsewhere, it's equally important how we spend it.

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Nevertheless, we do not live in a low tax economy, nor are we heading towards one, the tax take is rising, which is why so many are asking why vote Tory, if we are going to be taxed until the pips squeak.

"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people."

The truest, most perceptive words ever spoken by a politician, and yet they caused lefties to foam at the mouth. Too difficult a concept for them to grasp, possibly, although it seems fairly self-evident what she's saying to me. But then I went to a Grammar School, they should never have abolished them. >;)