FA Charge West Brom

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Originally Posted by kettering_baggie

Does the Sportsman ever close?

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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I won’t be going now that we’re taking young Hollie to the match Kets.

Distance and finances have meant that it has been some time since I have been able to attend games but it does seem clear to me that there has been a steady increase in thuggish behaviour at football matches over recent years. It may be a far cry from the worst years of the 70s and 80s, but it is still a concern and needs dealing with.

That said, surely any club should only be fined if negligence on their part can be proven in terms of the steps taken to try and prevent such violence (e.g. security arrangements/ investment in policing/ refusal of entry etc.). ? It is the individuals concerned who should be punished whether that involves banning from games, fines or sentencing.

And yes, alcohol is a factor so pubs have some responsibility too as do local councils for their responsibilities regarding Public Space Protection Orders and the police for enforcing the rules. It is illegal to serve alcohol to anyone who appears drunk and illegal to consume alcohol on many public transport services and in most public places. I do understand the difficulties of the financial costs involved in being able to enforce this in terms of affording the policing or security but do this properly and some of the idiots won't get into the ground in the first place. Certainly, drink isn't behind all of the thuggish behaviour and violence by any means but it plays it's part.

There are no easy answers and the tipping point where more good natured rowdiness and banter turns to violence can sometimes be hard to anticipate with premature heavy policing causing its own problems but the FA imposing heavy fines on clubs is not the answer unless true negligence can be proven. This can too easily be seen as just a blanket measure designed to make them look like they are doing something.

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Originally Posted by baggieal

Absolute bollox Boingy. I was next to it and some of our fans were punching and kicking the police. It was frightening. We have a lot of thugs and at some away games our supporters have caused loads of trouble. Ripping seats out on at least three occasions and street battles at a number of away games. Even at Huddersfield Sunday there was trouble in the town centre with a few of our thugs.

You mention Millwall but we ripped out seats at their ground and kicked a Millwall supporter unconscious.

We do deserve a big fine. I would also question pubs being open from 7am!

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What fans decide to do away from home is a problem to sort out but when it comes to the Hawthorns we must have one of the best reputations in the country. A couple of idiots from Wolves caused this, nothing to do with the club. Every club has a thug element but when it comes to who gets the blame this is an example of individual responsibility not club negligence. Huge difference.

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

Quite right.

The blame should always lie with the individual who perpetrated the crime unless a club or organisation can be proven to be negligent in its arrangements for an event.

If I was Albion I’d be taking this all the way with the FA and suing them.

The onus should be on them to prove negligence on Albion’s part.

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I think they should Mick. How could we have seen and prepared for this incident? How can we control who sells tickets to who? How can we prevent individuals pretending they are home fans to purely cause trouble? If we should have telepathically have seen this then by all means fine the club for negligence.

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Originally Posted by boingy

I think they should Mick. How could we have seen and prepared for this incident? How can we control who sells tickets to who? How can we prevent individuals pretending they are home fans to purely cause trouble? If we should have telepathically have seen this then by all means fine the club for negligence.

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There's also the not so tiny issue of where club sponsors complimentary tickets end up.

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Originally Posted by Omegstrat6

Distance and finances have meant that it has been some time since I have been able to attend games but it does seem clear to me that there has been a steady increase in thuggish behaviour at football matches over recent years. It may be a far cry from the worst years of the 70s and 80s, but it is still a concern and needs dealing with.

That said, surely any club should only be fined if negligence on their part can be proven in terms of the steps taken to try and prevent such violence (e.g. security arrangements/ investment in policing/ refusal of entry etc.). ? It is the individuals concerned who should be punished whether that involves banning from games, fines or sentencing.

And yes, alcohol is a factor so pubs have some responsibility too as do local councils for their responsibilities regarding Public Space Protection Orders and the police for enforcing the rules. It is illegal to serve alcohol to anyone who appears drunk and illegal to consume alcohol on many public transport services and in most public places. I do understand the difficulties of the financial costs involved in being able to enforce this in terms of affording the policing or security but do this properly and some of the idiots won't get into the ground in the first place. Certainly, drink isn't behind all of the thuggish behaviour and violence by any means but it plays it's part.

There are no easy answers and the tipping point where more good natured rowdiness and banter turns to violence can sometimes be hard to anticipate with premature heavy policing causing its own problems but the FA imposing heavy fines on clubs is not the answer unless true negligence can be proven. This can too easily be seen as just a blanket measure designed to make them look like they are doing something.

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Haven't found attending football matches home or away particularly traumatising to be honest Omeg', and certainly nowhere as dramatic as has been described in parts on this thread.

As a footnote I class myself as very fortunate indeed to have avoided some of the battle scenes described by Al' which appear to follow him wherever he goes.

Further to this I'd like to extend my best wishes to the Millwall supporter who made a complete recovery from the coma he was never in.

Spark out yes, comatosed no. And it never would have happened anyway if he and his mates hadn't tried to force their way through the segregation gates to the rear of the Smethwick End at half time.

Stay safe everyone 🙏.

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Originally Posted by boingy

What fans decide to do away from home is a problem to sort out but when it comes to the Hawthorns we must have one of the best reputations in the country. A couple of idiots from Wolves caused this, nothing to do with the club. Every club has a thug element but when it comes to who gets the blame this is an example of individual responsibility not club negligence. Huge difference.

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How the hell can a couple of idiots from Wolves have caused this? Did they cause the West Brom fans to give a few if the police a good beating? Did these two Wolves supporters cause all the West Brom fans to run out from the Brummie? Did these two Wolves supporters cause that baton to whack that West Brom fan on the head? Did those two Wolves supporters cause the West Brom supporters to lob coins and plastic bottles at the ball boy and Wolves players taking a corner?

Collective responsibility mate! Anyone who says these scenes weren’t frightening and vicious should get their own head tested!

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Originally Posted by Albionic68

Haven't found attending football matches home or away particularly traumatising to be honest Omeg', and certainly nowhere as dramatic as has been described in parts on this thread.

As a footnote I class myself as very fortunate indeed to have avoided some of the battle scenes described by Al' which appear to follow him wherever he goes.

Further to this I'd like to extend my best wishes to the Millwall supporter who made a complete recovery from the coma he was never in.

Spark out yes, comatosed no. And it never would have happened anyway if he and his mates hadn't tried to force their way through the segregation gates to the rear of the Smethwick End at half time.

Stay safe everyone 🙏.

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Come on Dan - people who say the Wolves match was a one off are deluded. What about all the seats being ripped out at Villa and thrown on their supporters below - that was in the news as was a couple of seats ripped out at Millwall and one of which ended up on the pitch.

Our supporters are better than most but some are portraying us as Angels. The trouble against Wolves was vicious and embarrassing and Lloyd too was in that corner.

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Originally Posted by baggieal

Come on Dan - people who say the Wolves match was a one off are deluded. What about all the seats being ripped out at Villa and thrown on their supporters below - that was in the news as was a couple of seats ripped out at Millwall and one of which ended up on the pitch.

Our supporters are better than most but some are portraying us as Angels. The trouble against Wolves was vicious and embarrassing and Lloyd too was in that corner.

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It comes down to whether its the CLUBS fault or the FANS fault. Blaming the club is unfair.

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Originally Posted by baggieal

Come on Dan - people who say the Wolves match was a one off are deluded. What about all the seats being ripped out at Villa and thrown on their supporters below - that was in the news as was a couple of seats ripped out at Millwall and one of which ended up on the pitch.

Our supporters are better than most but some are portraying us as Angels. The trouble against Wolves was vicious and embarrassing and Lloyd too was in that corner.

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You're right Al'. The Wolves match wasn't a one off and our support base isn't filled with angels, yet as you acknowledge it is still better than many. Saying that readers would be hard pushed to know it from some of your descriptions 😉 .

Millwall away was a sad reflection on a day of wider frustration in a very disappointing season. The seat chucking was on a much smaller scale than at the Villa though and fortunately they landed on the pitch without causing injury.

Neither incident should have occurred yet by comparison I shouldn't have been pelted with coins and cigarette lighters by Villa supporters twice in a week either. Speaking of which you're referencing a fixture there from nine years ago as though it were recent as a mark of escalating behaviours. Very nearly a decade has passed since then to the Wolves game.

If you were to go through arrests for even minor offences throughout the Premier League and EFL we don't rate anywhere near the top ten, although I do concede that the drunken dinner lady who was escorted from the field after nutmegging a steward against Wolves amongst others will help to boost those figures.

The actions during the Wolves game were an embarrassment especially as they were live on TV but for the most part it was people playing for the camera or their moment of infamy on social media as opposed to being outright vicious.