Printable View
The point being that, instead of going hell for leather towards aproper Brexit they were forced to work within the May parameters of "preferably no Bexit at all or at worst BRINO". Not what the 3 of them wanted and therefore they resigned.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
It's all a typical Brussels stitch up. No country has ever "got away" with voting against what "Brussels" wants in a referendum. For evidence look at Ireland, the Netherlands twice etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAmster
They were hardly ‘forced to work within the May parameters’ were they? They had to work within the parameters dictated by those rules defined by what we, the UK, had signed up and committed to.
What’s wrong with that? It’s what membership of pretty much all organisations requires and the alternative is the sort of selective anarchy that the likes of Farage and the ERG appear to specialise in.
What’s a ‘proper Brexit’ by the way?
A proper one is leaving on terms based on a properly negotiated basis. Coming up with your own negotiating stance and fighting your corner. Not letting the EU come up with 99% of the wording of all documents. Not taking over 2 years to come up with a stance that you know the EU aren't going to accept. They had already decided what their terms were.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
IMO, May et al basically sat on their hands doing sweet FA for 2 years leaving all of the preparatory work to the EU. The EU came to a decision and it was take it or leave it, basically. That suited May as, depsite 2 years of Brexit means Brexit and there will be no freedom of movement/Customs Union/Single market, they discovered it was actually No Brexit, BRINO or No deal. I blame May and the Tories for the current situation which is down to their lack of activity.
What is on the table is Brexit or BRINO.
Don't believe all you read in the press owned by the mega rich elite! I happen to know, through a close acquaintance that an awful lot of work was done on the deal - its hardly May's, she may be fronting it, but the deal was negotiated as always by others (i.e. people who know how to negotiate).Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAmster
Secondly, the deal was just the withdrawal agreement, it settled nothing about customs union/free movement/single market the actual deal post Brexit would be negotiated in the transition period following our departure - it does rather take some time to disentangle over 40 years of agreements and treaties, a point not exactly dwelled upon by those pushing Brexit!
The statistic about the majority of areas voting leave is meaningless and misleading - it was a referendum (advisory as well but hey ho) and the winning margin was very close and what Brexit would mean was never ever explained, quite the opposite in fact - the leave side claimed we would be able to leave the club and still enjoy the benefits we had in it, because the EU would be desperate for us not to leave without a good deal.
That as it happened wasn't the case, but the type of Brexit deal negotiated has to reflect the fact that 48% of the people didn't vote for it after all thats democracy.
Mind you when I hear leavers say things like - "We need to leave without a deal, the EU requires there to be a vet in every abattoir, we can't afford that!" Then I know the vast majority haven't got a ****ing clue!
If there is any blame for the current fiasco it lies with the arch Brexiteers in the Tory party and that bunch bigots known as the DUP!
Total agreement there Swale. The whole thing was dreamt up to try to mend the splits in the Tory party. It failed and led to the mess we have today.Quote:
Originally Posted by swaledale
Glad you agree with that MA...me too. Just puzzled how you can recognise that and still imply your support for a ‘proper Brexit’.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAmster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Just because a bunch of arseholes agree with what you think doesn't mean you (a) shouldn't still hold your beliefs (b) align yourself with those arseholes on other matters.
For example, I agree with Corbyn's stance on the Chagos Islands, but that doesn't mean I'd vote for him!
I agree GP, but if you believe - as MA obviously does - that the whole notion of a Brexit Referendum was ‘dreamt up to try and mend the splits in the Tory Party’ then why would you ever support a ‘proper Brexit’?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone
The interests of the Tory Party are not the same as the National Interest. As a mechanism for uniting the Tories Brexit has been a spectacular failure. I very much doubt that anyone as intelligent as I believe ‘Amster to be can believe that Brexit will be anything other than an equally spectacular disaster for the country no matter how much he may mistrust aspects of the EU.
rA, I am totally against the EU and have said why on a couple of occasions. It's no more than the next step to totalitarianism with, both financially and politically, more and more wealth, power and influence going to an ever smaller group of people.
It's not a world I wish to see.
Although you have said before that, while you are totally against the possible USoE aspect of the EU you are very much in favour of the old EEC alliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAmster
My point is that to support what you refer to as a ‘proper Brexit’ would involve throwing out all the economic and trading aspects of the EEC/EU that you respect and that this would damage the UK all in the name of, as you yourself agree, a plan ‘dreamt up to mend the splits in the Tory Party’.