OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Given your penchant for referenda Tricky, I’m surprised you don’t seem aware that we had a referendum on precisely this issue eight years ago.

The UK Alternative Vote Referendum took place in May 2011 when people were asked to vote on the following proposal...

‘At present the UK uses the first past the post system to elect MP’s. Should the alternative vote system be used instead?’

The voting was 32.10% in favour and 67.9% against. (71.2% in the East Midlands.)

Seems ‘Mr. Averages’ opinion differed quite markedly from yours but of course you’ll insist that we abide by the result.
Apparently the campaign was described as ‘bad tempered and ill informed’. Sound familiar?

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So let's apply ramAnag logic to those results, where there was a 42.2% turnout. Thus somewhere less than 30% of the electorate voted against PR: so by your Brexit referendum logic, a majority did not vote against PR so it should have been introduced.

Please rearrange these words into a popular expression: hoist, petard, own, your, by

🤔🤔😋😋😋🤔🤔

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Originally Posted by geoff parkstone

so let's apply ramanag logic to those results, where there was a 42.2% turnout. Thus somewhere less than 30% of the electorate voted against pr: So by your brexit referendum logic, a majority did not vote against pr so it should have been introduced.

Please rearrange these words into a popular expression: Hoist, petard, own, your, by

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

So let's apply ramAnag logic to those results, where there was a 42.2% turnout. Thus somewhere less than 30% of the electorate voted against PR: so by your Brexit referendum logic, a majority did not vote against PR so it should have been introduced.

Please rearrange these words into a popular expression: hoist, petard, own, your, by

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Hardly GP...I accept your point entirely and I’m not expressing an opinion in favour or otherwise as regards Tricky’s demand for an alternative voting system.

Simply pointing out the vagaries involved in using referenda to establish a consensus amongst the public for hugely complex issues such as our voting system and the advantages or otherwise of EU membership.

On the one hand Tricky is insisting that we abide by the result of the 2016 Referendum despite what we now know. On the other he is calling for a voting system to be brought into operation despite the 2011 Referendum result going against his belief and then seeking to justify his stance by suggesting circumstances have changed.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Hardly GP...I accept your point entirely and I’m not expressing an opinion in favour or otherwise as regards Tricky’s demand for an alternative voting system.

Simply pointing out the vagaries involved in using referenda to establish a consensus amongst the public for hugely complex issues such as our voting system and the advantages or otherwise of EU membership.

On the one hand Tricky is insisting that we abide by the result of the 2016 Referendum despite what we now know. On the other he is calling for a voting system to be brought into operation despite the 2011 Referendum result going against his belief and then seeking to justify his stance by suggesting circumstances have changed.

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I think my point was RA, had we not had first past the post, parliament would have looked very different in 2014.
There would have been an even stronger leave representation in parliament.

Seeing as so many MP's voted against what their constituents voted for.
This could have been settled a long time ago.

Public vote =leave
MP's vote what their constituents voted for= leave

70% of Tory constituencies voted out
60% of Labour constituencies voted out

Yet MP's don't like that.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

I think my point was RA, had we not had first past the post, parliament would have looked very different in 2014.
There would have been an even stronger leave representation in parliament.

Seeing as so many MP's voted against what their constituents voted for.
This could have been settled a long time ago.

Public vote =leave
MP's vote what their constituents voted for= leave

70% of Tory constituencies voted out
60% of Labour constituencies voted out

Yet MP's don't like that.

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But we did...have a first past the post system in 2014...largely as a result of the 2011 AV Referendum.

I have some sympathy for your argument about our electoral system, but you can’t have it both ways.

You condemn me for arguing that the 2016 Referendum result was unsound because, numbers apart, the information was misleading and fresh information has since become available but then say that, because in your opinion politics has changed since 2011, we need to revisit that particular Referendum decision.

As I say, I make no comment on the voting system but as far as referenda are concerned it sounds a lot like...stick with the result you like but change the one you don’t to me.

Here is a brief description of the new EU top dogs.....

A corrupt German minister

A failed Belgian PM

A Spanish politician famous for repression in Catalonia

A French Finance Minister convicted of negligence costing the French taxpayer some €400M

I'm in the EU and I don't fancy the future with those jokers at the helm.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Here is a brief description of the new EU top dogs.....

A corrupt German minister

A failed Belgian PM

A Spanish politician famous for repression in Catalonia

A French Finance Minister convicted of negligence costing the French taxpayer some €400M

I'm in the EU and I don't fancy the future with those jokers at the helm.

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But our own MP's have gone the same way.
They don't care what the common man wants. It's all about them
The EU is a massive gravy train. From the silly relocation every month, to the chauffeurs and parties.

Our own mob think like they do now.
Once I'm in I'll do as I please.
Morals of a skunk.

Did folks watch the programme on anti semitism last night? I suppose MR will be along soon to tell us it's all made up smears and the people effected are lying.

Corbyn is doing exactly what he wants. He has moulded that party to suit his own feelings.

Easy to slag the Tories off as they're rich toffs. Boris is a racist etc.
But when the ones doing the shouting are guilty, where do you go from here?

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

But our own MP's have gone the same way.
They don't care what the common man wants. It's all about them
The EU is a massive gravy train. From the silly relocation every month, to the chauffeurs and parties.

Our own mob think like they do now.
Once I'm in I'll do as I please.
Morals of a skunk.

Did folks watch the programme on anti semitism last night? I suppose MR will be along soon to tell us it's all made up smears and the people effected are lying.

Corbyn is doing exactly what he wants. He has moulded that party to suit his own feelings.

Easy to slag the Tories off as they're rich toffs. Boris is a racist etc.
But when the ones doing the shouting are guilty, where do you go from here?

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Even easier to ‘slag the Tories off’ because they’ve been a totally incompetent bunch of back stabbers since their return to power.

You’re obsessed with Corbyn, Tricky...is there anyone on here who’s spent time defending him? I know you’d love Swale to have played that role but has he? Really?

They are all a pretty discredited bunch, I agree, but be careful of your own warning about the loudest ‘shouters’ and ‘massive gravy trains’...I’d say your hero, Farage is well ahead as far as those two awards go.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Even easier to ‘slag the Tories off’ because they’ve been a totally incompetent bunch of back stabbers since their return to power.

You’re obsessed with Corbyn, Tricky...is there anyone on here who’s spent time defending him? I know you’d love Swale to have played that role but has he? Really?

They are all a pretty discredited bunch, I agree, but be careful of your own warning about the loudest ‘shouters’ and ‘massive gravy trains’...I’d say your hero, Farage is well ahead as far as those two awards go.

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Number one I said all.

Number two Swale dodged the question until challenged then bombed it

Number 3 Mr seems to think Corbyn is some kind of working mans hero.
He isn't and since he's been in control, the surge in left wing radicals has choked that party.
I told you I was an ex miner. I was Labour to the core. Not any more until he's gone and I'm definitely not in the cardigan club.

How many more times do I need to explain it to you?
Farage is an ends to a means. Labour/Tories needed a massive boot up the arse. They've got one. Where they go from here is up to them.

You seem to favour saying nowt and playing roll over tickle & my belly technique?

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Number one I said all.

Number two Swale dodged the question until challenged then bombed it

Number 3 Mr seems to think Corbyn is some kind of working mans hero.
He isn't and since he's been in control, the surge in left wing radicals has choked that party.
I told you I was an ex miner. I was Labour to the core. Not any more until he's gone and I'm definitely not in the cardigan club.

How many more times do I need to explain it to you?
Farage is an ends to a means. Labour/Tories needed a massive boot up the arse. They've got one. Where they go from here is up to them.

You seem to favour saying nowt and playing roll over tickle & my belly technique?

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I’ve no idea what half of that means Tricky, especially the last sentence.

All I’ll say is, ‘Farage is a means to an end’...according to you..the ‘end’ presumably being the removal of the outdated two Party system.

I can sympathise with your disillusionment but, imo, progress is never made by replacing something bad with something worse.
Farage, along with his supporters and his sinister, secretive backers, sees himself as ‘the end’ and it won’t be a happy one.