O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

What is unfortunate is that I have seen no statistics released that would support the contention that people in these "key roles" have greater mortality rates than others. Had I seen such evidence, I would be way more supportive of your view.

What I have seen are plenty of statistics showing that the mortality rates are higher in the elderly, the vulnerable and those with asthma and other breathing conditions, in care homes etc.

It may be I'm missing the evidence that you have seen, and that the country has seen higher mortality amongst teachers, retail workers etc - if you've seen such, can you link me to them? My views would clearly be different if there were numbers supporting your argument.

Until there is some evidence beyond what seems to be your gut feeling, I still believe priority should be given to those who ARE demonstrably dying. - ie the elderly, the infirm, those in care etc rather than, for example a 26 year old new graduate teacher in prime of his life, good health etc who if he were to contract COVID may well just shrug it off with some inconvenience (as current wisdom suggests would be the case)

Those admittedly are two extremes, but it's interesting how our perspectives and priorities differ.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Latest one I saw was that there have been less deaths from CV-19 than there were flu deaths in the 2018 flu season and that almost nobody has died of flu this year plus nobody run over by a bus in 2018 had flu written on their death certificate.....

Then there was the Austrian MP who "proved cola tests positive for CV-19" in Parliament. On a couple of social media posts using that to "prove" it's all a "scamdemic" I enquired why it is that the "woke" are all too ready to accept this unproven act as proof it's all a scam rather than sumply rubbishing anything and everything in mainstream media? I went on to look at the MP's "test" and asked if all the "woke" had missed......

1. He didn't show the test kit to the camera prior to the test to show that it didn't already read positive
2. He didn't show the test kit to the camera following the test to show that it really read positive
3. The current tests take between 15 and 60 minutes to give a result. How could he claim a positive result for cola in a little over 2 minutes?

I did provide them with a get out for #3 in that there is a test kit currently under trials that gives results in 3 minutes but there is no way of knowing if he used one of those.

There has been no reply to a single one of my posts on this.......

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Perhaps COVID is a production of Pepsi Cola, intent on subverting the global love for Coca Cola. Just has an unfortunate side effect of killing millions, but hey, it will boost PepsiCo profits 😕

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

What is unfortunate is that I have seen no statistics released that would support the contention that people in these "key roles" have greater mortality rates than others. Had I seen such evidence, I would be way more supportive of your view.

What I have seen are plenty of statistics showing that the mortality rates are higher in the elderly, the vulnerable and those with asthma and other breathing conditions, in care homes etc.

It may be I'm missing the evidence that you have seen, and that the country has seen higher mortality amongst teachers, retail workers etc - if you've seen such, can you link me to them? My views would clearly be different if there were numbers supporting your argument.

Until there is some evidence beyond what seems to be your gut feeling, I still believe priority should be given to those who ARE demonstrably dying. - ie the elderly, the infirm, those in care etc rather than, for example a 26 year old new graduate teacher in prime of his life, good health etc who if he were to contract COVID may well just shrug it off with some inconvenience (as current wisdom suggests would be the case)

Those admittedly are two extremes, but it's interesting how our perspectives and priorities differ.

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I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment.
As I say...it’s common sense.
We all accept that those in the NHS who work with Covid patients and those who work in care homes are in the front line and should be entitled to priority vaccinations.
Next in line are those who spend all day in a room with those who are identified as ‘super spreaders’ - often without knowing - and those who come into contact with huge numbers of the public.
Why wait till there’s a crisis in schools and supermarkets? Be proactive for once and get ahead of the game.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment.
As I say...it’s common sense.
We all accept that those in the NHS who work with Covid patients and those who work in care homes are in the front line and should be entitled to priority vaccinations.
Next in line are those who spend all day in a room with those who are identified as ‘super spreaders’ - often without knowing - and those who come into contact with huge numbers of the public.
Why wait till there’s a crisis in schools and supermarkets? Be proactive for once and get ahead of the game.

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It's not just this government that have this list of priorities, though, RA? MA, had just intimated that the Dutch have a similar list of priorities and I would imagine most countries will follow suit.

Whilst I'm admitting that Johnson has his failings, would you agree that Starmer has failed in his overall supervision of the Welsh government and in allowing his labour mayor of London to pressurise the weak Johnson into keeping London in tier 2, when it was obvious that they should have been in tier 3?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment.
As I say...it’s common sense.
We all accept that those in the NHS who work with Covid patients and those who work in care homes are in the front line and should be entitled to priority vaccinations.
Next in line are those who spend all day in a room with those who are identified as ‘super spreaders’ - often without knowing - and those who come into contact with huge numbers of the public.
Why wait till there’s a crisis in schools and supermarkets? Be proactive for once and get ahead of the game.

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I repeat, if there is any evidence that people in those key areas are dying of covid in above average numbers, then I'm totally with you. But I've seen none. Again I ask that you show evidence beyond your "gut feeling" and "common sense" then I have no argument.

I'm a numbers person, show us the numbers to support your argument.

One thing that IMO knocks any of the suggested 'exposed professions' (yes teachers but there have been others, cabbies, bus drivers, barristas, HR managers blah blah) but there's one 'profession' which trumps them all, and should therefore, if and when the next priorities become public knowledge, be at the top, where the exposure to the superspreaders (kids) is sustained, and where those professionals can't in all reason be expected to wear PPE

Parents

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Perhaps COVID is a production of Pepsi Cola, intent on subverting the global love for Coca Cola. Just has an unfortunate side effect of killing millions, but hey, it will boost PepsiCo profits ��

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Or vice versa?

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

One thing that IMO knocks any of the suggested 'exposed professions' (yes teachers but there have been others, cabbies, bus drivers, barristas, HR managers blah blah) but there's one 'profession' which trumps them all, and should therefore, if and when the next priorities become public knowledge, be at the top, where the exposure to the superspreaders (kids) is sustained, and where those professionals can't in all reason be expected to wear PPE

Parents

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To which the response has to be...so should all the schools have been open? Not in areas with worryingly high figures imo.

I don’t know the numbers GP. You may have a lifelong numbers fetish but they aren’t the answer to everything and in any case the numbers the Government come up with are seriously questionable as we can all see from the much more tangible question of the number of lorries queuing in the vicinity of Dover. Last night’s figure from the PM bares no resemblance to the four digit figures quoted by the BBC and Sky today.

We have recognised the need to prioritise the NHS workers, we have recognised the need to close theatres, cinemas, pubs, restaurants and sports stadia. How devoid of imagination do you have to be not to recognise that crowded classrooms and supermarkets fit the same criteria?

"I’m not trying to create some sort of competition between the old and those involved in specific areas of employment"

But that is exactly what you are doing. You cannot move people up a priority chain without moving others down it. That's "competition". In a real world with a finite supply and infinite demand for a product for every winner there is a loser.

At the moment you want to prioritise the elderly, the infirm, those in care, those with existing medical conditions, those working in the NHS and in the care sectors, those key workers you've identified - teachers, retail, transport, binmen etc, those alleged super spreaders aged, what, 12 to 23?

So who is left unprioritised? Sid and Doris Bonkers of Neasden (and accountants)

And when you now have a priority pool of 99% of the population, how do you prioritise within that group? Alphabetical order maybe? I don't know but it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it and eat it again.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

To which the response has to be...so should all the schools have been open? Not in areas with worryingly high figures imo.

I don’t know the numbers GP. You may have a lifelong numbers fetish but they aren’t the answer to everything and in any case the numbers the Government come up with are seriously questionable as we can all see from the much more tangible question of the number of lorries queuing in the vicinity of Dover. Last night’s figure from the PM bares no resemblance to the four digit figures quoted by the BBC and Sky today.

We have recognised the need to prioritise the NHS workers, we have recognised the need to close theatres, cinemas, pubs, restaurants and sports stadia. How devoid of imagination do you have to be not to recognise that crowded classrooms and supermarkets fit the same criteria?

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I actually think the response should be 'hmm yes you have a point'. I don't actually have an opinion on schools (break out the marching bands, declare a days holiday chaps!) I don't know enough about the dynamics. Swale will probably accuse me of subtle racism for that admission but hey ho