OT: What a pillock

I’m genuinely interested in Leave voters’ thoughts on this, because I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere or brought up by anyone. Do simple demographics not mean that we’re going to be back in within a few years anyway, just without any opt outs or special treatment that we got before?

I don’t really see what’s going to happen to turn around the 75% majority that are pro-EU amongst people turning voting age.

That’s why I think ‘my side’ are making a tactical mistake fighting for a second referendum now. They should be pushing to have one agreed for four and five years when the reality is clear and demographics are clearly on our side.

It’s also why the ‘voting against the wishes of young people’ thing isn’t just about ‘stealing out futures’, either. I’m genuinely quite pragmatic, and I think it’s pretty much idiotic to make a major constitutional change against the wishes of a huge majority of the generations who are going to be able to overturn it in a few years anyway.

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Originally Posted by BigFatPie

It’s all very simple. Despite claims at the time, the 1975 referendum was overturned by the one in 2016, and that one will probably be overturned by a People’s Referendum in 2019, particularly in the light of increasing evidence of Russian interference.

The govt’s negotiating hand has always been terminally weakened by their own figures which tell us no deal will be an economic disaster, as well as the Northern Ireland situation, and many of the deal scenarios aren’t much better. Lots of people don’t seem to want to avail themselves of actual facts.

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In your opinion, what evidence of Russian interference is strong enough to justify another Referendum in 2019?

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

I’m genuinely interested in Leave voters’ thoughts on this, because I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere or brought up by anyone. Do simple demographics not mean that we’re going to be back in within a few years anyway, just without any opt outs or special treatment that we got before?

I don’t really see what’s going to happen to turn around the 75% majority that are pro-EU amongst people turning voting age.

That’s why I think ‘my side’ are making a tactical mistake fighting for a second referendum now. They should be pushing to have one agreed for four and five years when the reality is clear and demographics are clearly on our side.

It’s also why the ‘voting against the wishes of young people’ thing isn’t just about ‘stealing out futures’, either. I’m genuinely quite pragmatic, and I think it’s pretty much idiotic to make a major constitutional change against the wishes of a huge majority of the generations who are going to be able to overturn it in a few years anyway.

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Wow. What other democratic decisions would you disenfranchise the older generation from? Or is it just the ones where you don’t agree with the result?

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Originally Posted by AltyPie

Wow. What other democratic decisions would you disenfranchise the older generation from? Or is it just the ones where you don’t agree with the result?

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Jacob fails to understand that the "younger generation" eventually grow up....idealism goes out of the window and it's every man for himself and his family....if you want to chuck a few pennies at the beggar in the street, go ahead....but don't chuck my money with it, ask me first....give me a choice.

Communism-Socialism has never EVER worked....ask the Venezuelans begging for food and toilet paper at the border.

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Originally Posted by tarquinbeech

Jacob fails to understand that the "younger generation" eventually grow up....idealism goes out of the window and it's every man for himself and his family....if you want to chuck a few pennies at the beggar in the street, go ahead....but don't chuck my money with it, ask me first....give me a choice.

Communism-Socialism has never EVER worked....ask the Venezuelans begging for food and toilet paper at the border.

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Exactly. How does it go? “If a man is not a Socialist at 20 he has no heart, and if he’s not a middle aged Nazi bigot by 45 he has no brain.”

To be honest his post makes as good a case as any for disenfranchising “his side” as he puts it. No matter, I still think his post a while ago about his Muslim mate’s mum making buns instead of doing any Jihad stands as one of the funniest ever.

In other news, I see the BFP RDS is getting OTT ATM lol.

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Originally Posted by JoePass

I hear Venezuela is a nice place, ask Corbyn, he has lots of great politicial mates there, perhaps then we can call our leader.

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Nice straw man there.

The state the UK finds itself in is 100% down to the Tory party. They've forever changed the course of our history and identity due to internal politics and infighting, and at no point have they had any idea what they were doing. Their leadership over the last eight years has been nothing more than catastrophic. If you can't see that, you simply aren't looking. No other party would be able to survive such incompetence and disregard for normal people, yet someone they amble on. I despair.

I wouldn't call it a regime, it's a club, a club that you are free to join and free to leave.

If you decide to leave, you can't realistically expect to keep all the good bits, because that would devalue the club to the point where nobody would have any incentive to be in it.

Nobody was using the word 'bullying' at the time of the referendum, but leavers were saying that we should adopt an uncompromising position - something like 'give us what we want or you won't sell any VWs in the UK' - but when the other side adopts that kind of position with us (and there's no moral or practical reason why they shouldn't, given that as I said before if they let us leave and keep the good bits everyone will do it and they might as well just scrap the whole thing) it's apparently bullying.

I find this attitude pathetic, and it really does make me wonder if people thought this through properly.

I've also seen nothing to convince me that people have properly thought through how we are going to negotiate better trade deals with a bargaining chip of access to one country's market of 65 million than with a bargaining chip of 28 countries' markets, so I suppose we'll just wait for that to go tits up as well and then accuse other countries of bullying too.

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Originally Posted by jackal2

Nice analogy, but actually I think it will be more like the Sam Allardyce experience. A very difficult beginning which will take longer than expected to fight through and will leave some doubting the appointment/decision, but when the lead weight of relegation (or in this case, Europe) is finally shaken off, we'll be on our way to the economic equivalent of the league title.

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For all our sakes I hope you're right Jackal.

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

I’m genuinely interested in Leave voters’ thoughts on this, because I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere or brought up by anyone. Do simple demographics not mean that we’re going to be back in within a few years anyway, just without any opt outs or special treatment that we got before?

I don’t really see what’s going to happen to turn around the 75% majority that are pro-EU amongst people turning voting age.

That’s why I think ‘my side’ are making a tactical mistake fighting for a second referendum now. They should be pushing to have one agreed for four and five years when the reality is clear and demographics are clearly on our side.

It’s also why the ‘voting against the wishes of young people’ thing isn’t just about ‘stealing out futures’, either. I’m genuinely quite pragmatic, and I think it’s pretty much idiotic to make a major constitutional change against the wishes of a huge majority of the generations who are going to be able to overturn it in a few years anyway.

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There might be another referendum in the short term but it'll be on the terms of the exit, not the decision itself.

The general rule on referenda is one per generation so I do think we'll end up back in but in 20 or 25 years or so. Same for Scotland and they'll leave next time seeing as guaranteed EU membership was one of the main reasons they voted to stay.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Totally side stepped what I said.
It has been since proven that the British public was lied to and conned as what the common market vote really was. Heath even buried it in the official secrets archives.
Elements of the ruling elite knew where this was heading 40 years ago, but chose to con everyone and not give you any "facts" then either. The same rhetoric is being repeated.

If you was one of those stupid enough to not read that slogan correctly, then god help you.
It never said, the NHS was getting anything. It highlighted what £350 a week could be spent on, rather than lining pockets of a secret society.

Perhaps you are watching Question time now? All I am seeing is one "peoples poet" screaming immigration is all about xenophobia.
Total arse hole, who certain people are afraid to challenge, incase they come into his firing line, of "racist".
Obviously there is a hard core here, that doesn't have a tube of glue, of why folks rejected immigration free for alls.
Too late, genies out the bottle now.

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Your whole post was about lies from the remain side. Now you post this patronising post. I didn't believe the bus slogan which is why I said it 'inferred' the money to the NHS. It was a deliberately misleading slogan.

So here's a simple question for you.

Were there lies and deception from the Leave side? It only needs a yes or no, just like the referendum!