Royals v Rams

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I don’t see how Cocu can be blamed for the behaviour of specific adults in their own time when he is not present...no. Unless you’re also going to blame Klopp for Firmino’s drink driving and every other manager for the misdemeanours of their playing staff.

Of course Cocu cannot abdicate responsibility for poor performances...neither is he entirely responsible for them. The missing of crucial penalties and the conceding of unnecessary ones has far more to do with our league position and as far as I’m aware Cocu isn’t to blame for either of those.

The argument about footballers being overpaid prima donnas is new to this thread and not one I disagree with however your attitude of having a go at all the players - and those on here who try to remain positive - is all too symptomatic of certain Derby fans imo.

PP is a bloody awful place to play when the fans turn against you as I’m sure Roos, Keogh, Ince, Waghorn and Cyrus Christie - to name but a few - will readily testify.

The players are currently devoid of confidence and being under a barrage of criticism - some justified, some not - from supporters at the ground, on forums like this and from a certain ex player turned commentator (I use the term loosely) on Radio Derby helps no one.

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What on earth are you talking about? It has always been so, a team plays badly, players make mistakes, fans express their views and thats all fans, even those of teams where you'd think they had nothing to complain about its what football is about FFS!

A manager sets the standards of behaviour, oversees the coaching, picks the team, sets the tactics of course he has responsibility for what happens on and off the pitch. Theres a difference between an individuals actions and what a group do on a club sanctioned night out.

So now fans aren't allowed to crticise or express their views either on forums like this or in the stadium for fear of upsetting the players? What poppycock, your made a big assumption that the players you name even give a toss!

I realise that being challenged is uncomfortable for you, I get the feeling that even if the world was ending you'd be saying keep positive its not the end of the world! (Oh sorry it is!).

Never mind RA you keep convincing yourself this is all going to end well its your basic right to do so.

Lol...you get the feeling I don’t like being ‘challenged’! Take a look in the mirror, Swale...another case of ‘pot kettle and black’ methinks...and not for the first time this week. ;D

Of course fans are ‘allowed’ to express their views and criticise...especially those who actually go. It’s your ‘I’d rather stick pins in my eyes than go and watch that shower of ****e’ type mentality I’m talking about and when that translates into ironic cheers when Roos makes a clean catch or the type of abuse that drove Cyrus Christie from the club it isn’t, imo, helpful.

A manager ‘sets the standards’ and has responsibility for events ‘on and off the pitch’.
It would be nice to think so but it’s also very naive. Guess that means Klopp and Pochettino must be poor managers too.

‘Joinersgate’ didn’t happen on a ‘club sanctioned night out’. It happened long after an afternoon/early evening of team building activities and those involved chose not to use the transport properly laid on by the club.
Do you honestly expect a manager to believe that he has to treat professionals in their twenties and the thirty four year old club captain like children on a school trip?

I don’t...that’s my opinion and, for the record, I honestly don’t care whether you ‘challenge’/agree/disagree or not...it’s a forum...it’s purpose is to exchange and challenge views.

Dastardly and Muttley falling out in the wake of Brexit defeat now.... whatever next 😁

Just a bit of American friendly fire, nothing to see here.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Dastardly and Muttley falling out in the wake of Brexit defeat now.... whatever next ��

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Not falling out GP, just exercising my ‘right’ to ‘challenge’ and pointing out that, on this occasion, he’s talking bollux. ;D

There's more than an element of truth from both viewpoints!
Players, especially the more experienced ones should have sufficient pride in their contribution to the club, it's fans and the team to give their all both on and off the pitch and do so at all times!! I don't recall the Stimac's, Van der Laan's, Roy Macs, Hector's et al being anything other than totally proud of their profession and were so 24/7. Ability is an irrelevance when it comes to ensuring, at all times, players remember how fortunate they are and do nothing to abuse and undermine their ability to perform at their best in any way.
Managers have basically the same responsibilities and privileges their ability has granted them. That does include the care and control of their family ie the players. To achieve that they must also do everything to ensure, at all times they

to be continued...
can perform at their best and that does mean they must bear some responsibility for their 'charges' 24\7. At his best BC did as did JS!!
When either players or their manager fall below those standards trouble is inevitable and when both do, as I believe is the current situation at PP, then the situation can deteriorate very quickly. The fans will see this and their concerns will register in the form of players being targeted in the short term and if there is no improvement woe betide the manager!!
At that point the Chairman has to step in, over to you Mel!!

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Originally Posted by macstheman

to be continued...
can perform at their best and that does mean they must bear some responsibility for their 'charges' 24\7. At his best BC did as did JS!!
When either players or their manager fall below those standards trouble is inevitable and when both do, as I believe is the current situation at PP, then the situation can deteriorate very quickly. The fans will see this and their concerns will register in the form of players being targeted in the short term and if there is no improvement woe betide the manager!!
At that point the Chairman has to step in, over to you Mel!!

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Great post Mac I echo everything you say

I remember a certain 4-4 Boxing Day game. Our keeper turned up "sober as a judge" which is no recommendation for anybody. He was asked if he was fit enough to play. He said he was so he got to play. Truth was, he wasn't, and he never played for us again. Good part of it is that it ushered in the reign of Colin Boulton as our #1.

I agree with much of what you say Mac and the players concerned did let the club down...no doubt about it.

In my book though you should only jeer your own players for lack of effort, the classic examples for me being Claude Davis and Butterfield.
I think this squad lacks brains rather than effort and both booing the side off at half time and singling out individuals during the match is, imo, counter productive.
Those who attend have every right to voice their concerns, I understand that, but they are also called ‘supporters’ and you don’t support someone by repeatedly slagging them off.
Goalkeepers and wide players are obviously the most vulnerable from loud mouths in the crowd, but while, for example, I share all the common concerns about Roos’ handling ability I think all the sarcastic cheers and jeers when he did catch the ball - particularly from the South Standers - only made matters worse.
We all know, whether it be a bad golf shot, a dropped catch in cricket, a knock on at rugby or missing a blatant goal scoring opportunity, that the thing you do next is most important. The tension builds and that can only become worse with the ridicule of 20,000 ‘supporters’ ringing in your ears.