Wembley...behind closed doors.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

The irony to me, is that those same patriots/ nationalist/ self proud persons known/unknown.
Gave their lives to make sure, that we wasn't part of a "united Europe" under a swastika.

This untited utopia some crave has lots of downfalls, which shows itself very vividly on the borders of Poland/Latvia/Lithuania and even our own southern coast.
Merkel and her crew set the ball rolling and Schengen sealed it.

Swale is right about the royal family and its inter marraiges from all over Europe. But the UK has people from all over the world, not just Europe and being heads of the common wealth. How fitting.
It's what/how they represent the nation as key. The red/white/blue seems to offend many in this country?

In the main the royal family have been to the benefit of the nation. I'm not convinced with the next twonk.
They are supposed to stay neutral, I don't think he can.

Remembrance day is about every fallen service person. Perhaps folks could leave the politics **** out of it and just respect it.

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Well that puts me in the clear seeing as I made no reference to remembrance!

Its not the reference to the flag or patriotism that offends many, its the way some people and politicians wrap themselves in it or use the phrase for their own devious purposes.

Can't quite see the benefit to a mature democracy of having a privileged family from which the Head of State is chosen. It seems to me it perpetuates the idea that there is a class of people in this country who are somehow superior to others just by accident of birth, but I guess if you and other proles are happy doffing your caps to the privileged fair enough.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

My ‘usual tactic of attempting to weaken a strong message’.:?

I’d love to hear your explanation of that one, although I suspect I won’t and you’ll just disappear for a while.
Anyway, please do explain, and pay particular attention to the words ‘usual’ and ‘strong message’. Can’t wait, because this time it’s me
who really has no idea what you’re talking about.
You might also want to bear in mind who it was that tried to politicise Remembrance Day by introducing it into this debate in the first place.

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I rather fear his memory isn't that great, but I guess it could just be a case of selective memory.

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Originally Posted by swaledale

I rather fear his memory isn't that great, but I guess it could just be a case of selective memory.

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Lol...I’m still trying to work out how we got to Remembrance Day on a thread entitled ‘Wembley...behind closed doors.’

Perhaps Dr. Johnson’s words, ‘Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel’ are particularly relevant to all aspects of this thread.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

My ‘usual tactic of attempting to weaken a strong message’.:?

I’d love to hear your explanation of that one, although I suspect I won’t and you’ll just disappear for a while.
Anyway, please do explain, and pay particular attention to the words ‘usual’ and ‘strong message’. Can’t wait, because this time it’s me
who really has no idea what you’re talking about.
You might also want to bear in mind who it was that tried to politicise Remembrance Day by introducing it into this debate in the first place.

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Obfuscating an argument which contadicts your own (or of course Swale's) is a long-running habit/tactic you have rA, if its a habit you may not be aware of it, if its a tactic you obviously are. Its not worth indulging in a long debate on the subject for this exact reason because you will merely revert to type in response.


the current side-spat actually started with Swale's post of 12:23 am yesterday and was politicised at that point, amongst the insults, with a reference to Brexit. I look look forward to your admonishment of Swale next time you log on but am resigned to further obfuscation, its just your style

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Obfuscating an argument which contadicts your own (or of course Swale's) is a long-running habit/tactic you have rA, if its a habit you may not be aware of it, if its a tactic you obviously are. Its not worth indulging in a long debate on the subject for this exact reason because you will merely revert to type in response.


the current side-spat actually started with Swale's post of 12:23 am yesterday and was politicised at that point, amongst the insults, with a reference to Brexit. I look look forward to your admonishment of Swale next time you log on but am resigned to further obfuscation, its just your style

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So first I’m ‘attempting to weaken a strong message’ and now I’m ‘obfuscating’. Some examples, of either, might help, but then you rarely provide any of those these days.

The tread was actually ‘politicised’ within 17 minutes via the second reply...arguably even earlier...by your reaction to my original comment about the booing of anthems. Take a look back if you don’t believe me.

Yes, Swale made a somewhat belated political point in post #29, but only you introduced (and politicised) Remembrance Day into the argument (post #30) as I correctly implied in post #40.

Maybe you’ll now think this is further ‘obfuscation’ on my part. If so I’d suggest you’re confusing it with ‘clarification’ and now need to tell me what, off the above, is incorrect.

P.S. On the subject of ‘reverting to type’ there is no better example of this than your comment about it not being ‘worth indulging in a long debate on the subject’. It’s one of the two tactics you employ whenever you’re in the wrong...the other one being to claim you were only joking or making a lighthearted response. It’s the Andy way. ;D

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

P.S. On the subject of ‘reverting to type’ there is no better example of this than your comment about it not being ‘worth indulging in a long debate on the subject’.

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Your bin men moan and subsequent discussion taught me the futility in prolonging things, you couldn't accept you were factually wrong in that discussion despite the evidence, so I decided there was little point pushing any nuanced points of view at you for too long. I'm guessing most folk have drifted away from the once interesting non-footballing dicussions here for the same reason

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Your bin men moan and subsequent discussion taught me the futility in prolonging things, you couldn't accept you were factually wrong in that discussion despite the evidence, so I decided there was little point pushing any nuanced points of view at you for too long. I'm guessing most folk have drifted away from the once interesting non-footballing dicussions here for the same reason

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Spot on Andy

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Your bin men moan and subsequent discussion taught me the futility in prolonging things, you couldn't accept you were factually wrong in that discussion despite the evidence, so I decided there was little point pushing any nuanced points of view at you for too long. I'm guessing most folk have drifted away from the once interesting non-footballing dicussions here for the same reason

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Slightly bizarre response. Having accused me of obfuscation you promptly ignore the points raised about the actual topic and revert back to a point raised weeks ago on the Brexit thread.

Was it a ‘moan’? This isn’t really the place but...I don’t think so. It was a point raised in connection with the impact of Brexit. Was I ‘factually wrong’? I’m not sure how...there is a shortage of HGV drivers in this country...that shortage has impacted certain services i.e. the supply chain, refuse collection and, more recently, bus services. That shortage is, in part, undeniably due to Brexit. The fact that there are other factors...e.g. low wages. the behaviour of Serco and the pandemic doesn’t mean I’m wrong in attributing some of the problems to the exodus of relevant workers as a direct result of Brexit.

Not sure how it’s my fault ‘most folk have drifted away from the once interesting non football discussions here’ either. As someone so fond of stats here’s some for you. The Brexit thread has attracted 7,848 replies, the Covid thread, 2294. I didn’t start either but have contributed considerably to those discussions...forgive me for thinking that was the point of a forum. Beyond that the ‘Greta and the loudmouths’ thread has attracted 28 contributions quite quickly and my own Wembley thread (football though not DCFC related) has attracted 47 comments. By comparison your last three threads have, collectively, attracted a grand total of 39 comments.

The phrase ‘physician heal thyself’ rather springs to mind.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Your bin men moan and subsequent discussion taught me the futility in prolonging things, you couldn't accept you were factually wrong in that discussion despite the evidence, so I decided there was little point pushing any nuanced points of view at you for too long. I'm guessing most folk have drifted away from the once interesting non-footballing dicussions here for the same reason

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As rA correctly said, when your wrong, you tend to do one of 3 things, claim you were jesting, try to muddy the waters by claiming that the posters don't understand your "nuanced" argument, go completely off topic and blame anyone who disagrees with you for this.

Unfortunately for you, its very easy to go back to my original post, and see that I made no reference to Remembrance day, that was you and only you.

As for the bin men discussion, rA merely repeated what the local council had said was the reason for it, so how he could accept that he was factually wrong (he wasn't anyway because Brexit certainly is a factor) is a bit strange. But then thats you, spout a view based on your own narrow perception of the world, disappear when called out, then sneak back once you've thought about how to respond.

The phrase stop digging comes to mind here, but like TTR, you don't seem to realise that some of your posts do make you luck rather silly. Still its amusing if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Obfuscating an argument which contadicts your own (or of course Swale's) is a long-running habit/tactic you have rA, if its a habit you may not be aware of it, if its a tactic you obviously are. Its not worth indulging in a long debate on the subject for this exact reason because you will merely revert to type in response.


the current side-spat actually started with Swale's post of 12:23 am yesterday and was politicised at that point, amongst the insults, with a reference to Brexit. I look look forward to your admonishment of Swale next time you log on but am resigned to further obfuscation, its just your style

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Gammon is as Gammon does >:)