Serious val question

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Originally Posted by Leicesterbaggie

Totally agree mick. I've reiterated this on another thread. How anybody can state that this is the worst Albion squad in living memory is beyond me. Yes, there are weaknesses but, the worst squad? Never in a month of Sundays.

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Opinions opinions. Weaknesses - there’s weaknesses all over the pitch FFS. Ajayi - Bartley - Phillips - Livermore - Robinson - Hugill are all very average championship players!! Grant and Diangana 32 million your have a fkin laugh!!! Where’s our goal scorer? When did Gayle leave?

Fulham and Bournemouth are streets above us in terms of talent and investment!

Mowatt and Clarke are our best players by a long way. Mowatt came from Barnsley and Clarke could not get in the Brighton team!

At least I’m a realist and know if we make the play offs with this squad it’s an achievement!

Where are our young pacy players apart from being at the Villa Academy?

The club is in serious decline. I can see it - many others can see it but some can’t which is sad!

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Originally Posted by baggieal

Lets hope West Brom beat Barnsley 5-0 in December Renno as for some West Brom supporters anything less won't be good enough!

At least I admit it's the absolute worst West Brom squad ever and Val was given nothing! It says something that Mowatt is our best player by far in my opinion and he came from you guys! Last night Mowatt was sadly missed as he makes two of Livermore!

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In fairness its probably why you got Big Val in was because of what he did on a mediocre budget at ours last season. If we defend as we have been lately then you should easily get to 5-0 without the need for subs, they're queuing up to give VI and AM a piggy back back up to Oakwell at the minute

We would love a crap 1-0 at the minute, although that said it's getting to the point where you dont mind losing 7-0 just to get this clown sacked !

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Originally Posted by baggiematt

With respect Mick, I think your experience as a competitive footballer is about as useful as my time in the Stourbridge conkers team, in terms of evaluating performance of a system. By your logic VI knows a heck of a lot more than you do about systems as he played at the very highest level - and therefore your point is as moot as mine.

Many managers have implemented a 3/5 at the back system successfully. Megson wouldn't shift from it and was very successful for us. All with Igor Balis at right wing back. 3/5 at the back is now more common than 442 in the top three leagues. You often find defences used to playing at 4 at the back need some time to work out how 3/5 at the back will work. We've only just settled on what seems to be a stable back 3 since Clarke has returned. Our two defeats have been against teams that play 3 at the back.

I agree with other posters, the very high line is a defensive issue. I can't tell if VI is working on addressing the defensive issues or just passive enough to think these issues are one off's. I hope it's the former or we work out ways of scoring more goals to compensate.

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You're completely missing the point.

I'm talking from personal experience of having played in a 3 and a 4 at the back, f u ck I n g conkers or my level compared to Val's level and ability is irrelevant.

I'm trying to impress upon those who've never experienced it just how different and technically and physically different the role is between either side of a 3 or playing as a regular fullback in a traditional 4.


It's not dissimilar to being used to playing a a front pair and then being asked to play on your own as a number 9 like we did with Rondon.

It's chalk and cheese which is why it only suits certain players, a certain type is needed in terms of both physical attributes and mindset.

Seriously, most fullbacks wince when they hear they're going to be played as a centre back and the same for centre halves who get asked to play in a 3 because of the extra leg work that has to be done.

It's a nightmare trying to decide whether to stick or twist when a long ball is launched into the channel on your side for example.

Regardless of standard, anyone who's been asked to do the role would likely tell you the same.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's ever played fullback or cente half at whatever level be it non league or on Saturday or Sunday league football and their personal observations of being asked to play in a 3 rather than a 4?

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

You're completely missing the point.

I'm talking from personal experience of having played in a 3 and a 4 at the back, f u ck I n g conkers or my level compared to Val's level and ability is irrelevant.

I'm trying to impress upon those who've never experienced it just how different and technically and physically different the role is between either side of a 3 or playing as a regular fullback in a traditional 4.


It's not dissimilar to being used to playing a a front pair and then being asked to play on your own as a number 9 like we did with Rondon.

It's chalk and cheese which is why it only suits certain players, a certain type is needed in terms of both physical attributes and mindset.

Seriously, most fullbacks wince when they hear they're going to be played as a centre back and the same for centre halves who get asked to play in a 3 because of the extra leg work that has to be done.

It's a nightmare trying to decide whether to stick or twist when a long ball is launched into the channel on your side for example.

Regardless of standard, anyone who's been asked to do the role would likely tell you the same.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's ever played fullback or cente half at whatever level be it non league or on Saturday or Sunday league football and their personal observations of being asked to play in a 3 rather than a 4?

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Barnsley despite their lack of quality adapted to this system really well and made the play offs. Some of our lot who still think they belong in the Premier may not be so keen on this system - no coincidence players like Furlong have gone off the boil and other players don’t turn up! I could be wrong but the body language in some does not look great!

I hate player power and it’s been an issue at West Brom in the past!! This is why it makes me laugh when some say Johnstone has been loyal - yeah right!!! He couldn’t give a flying
F uck if West Brom get nothing as the only way he will command a move is on a free!

To play the high press really well you do need pacy players which is our problem. Ajayi and Bartley are crap - there’s no engine when Mowatt is not there and up front players may or may not turn up! Hugill looks like a poor Austin and eats all the pies!

As for Diangana - what a f uckin waste of money for this lightweight injury prone croc of s hit!!

Tolluch could perhaps suit the high press!!

True what you said - had the club splashed the cash for Okay and Diange we would be romping this league! You invest peanuts and this is what happens!

There is a psychological issue here I’m convinced
We’ve all seen the gradual decline in the quality of our players over the last 4 years both in skill but also mental resilience. Far too easily heads will drop and we have recruited too few players with what I call a winning mentality, Mowatt the exception

I rather hoped Val would offset some of this by introducing some grit and determination into the squad. He is a self-confessed disciplinarian and demands total commitment.
I think at the start this happened and they responded, but many have now reverted back to their old self.
Where was the press last night? After we scored it stopped.
But Val has to take back control of the situation.

Lazy play last night, Furlong and Bartley not concentrating at crucial times.
Hugill, …. Oh dear Oh dear
But whatever the style or formation there is no substitute for Skill and determination and we have too little of both

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Originally Posted by wbaliquidator

There is a psychological issue here I’m convinced
We’ve all seen the gradual decline in the quality of our players over the last 4 years both in skill but also mental resilience. Far too easily heads will drop and we have recruited too few players with what I call a winning mentality, Mowatt the exception

I rather hoped Val would offset some of this by introducing some grit and determination into the squad. He is a self-confessed disciplinarian and demands total commitment.
I think at the start this happened and they responded, but many have now reverted back to their old self.
Where was the press last night? After we scored it stopped.
But Val has to take back control of the situation.

Lazy play last night, Furlong and Bartley not concentrating at crucial times.
Hugill, …. Oh dear Oh dear
But whatever the style or formation there is no substitute for Skill and determination and we have too little of both

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Great post and my thoughts too!

Stay

Stay. Far too early to consider sacking a new manager, especially one on a four year contract.

The squad's better than some suggest but contains nowhere near the quality in depth of others I could mention.

It's going to take time for things to bed in. The team's in a period of transition as is the club as a whole.

Got to stick with him, we will get nowhere chopping and chaining .
He's had one transfer window and not spent a penny.
He goes out to win every match, Pullis and Sam sent a out not to lose.
COYB get behind the team.

I do not enjoy the football that we are playing at this moment in time but you have to give Ismael more time to get it right. I really enjoyed the high press and intensity in the first few games, and it was successful. However, that concerted high press has dwindled and basically we have been just humping the ball forward which is not how we started the season. Basically, sides have sussed us out and he has to find an alternative way of combatting this.