The Wokeness Thread

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

I remember a time when this matter got no more complex than some slightly dubious East German and Russian athletes but surely the answer is found in common sense.

What separates male and females in virtually any sport you care to mention is simple strength. Hence those who can run fastest, jump highest, kick, hit or throw a ball hardest are male. That’s not a *exist point or me being judgemental about women’s sport... it’s just how it is. The ‘best’ athletes, cricketers, footballers, tennis players and golfers are all male.

Sport is almost unique in this respect. The male dominance aspect doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imo, translate to other areas of life where the only barriers to equality are cultural and remain in need of addressing.

However, as far as sport is concerned can we really cater equally for each and every minority and are not the ones who will really suffer those ‘natural females’ who might find themselves competing against trans gender females who possess ‘male’ strength? That can’t be right but the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

I remember a time when this matter got no more complex than some slightly dubious East German and Russian athletes but surely the answer is found in common sense.

What separates male and females in virtually any sport you care to mention is simple strength. Hence those who can run fastest, jump highest, kick, hit or throw a ball hardest are male. That’s not a *exist point or me being judgemental about women’s sport... it’s just how it is. The ‘best’ athletes, cricketers, footballers, tennis players and golfers are all male.

Sport is almost unique in this respect. The male dominance aspect doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imo, translate to other areas of life where the only barriers to equality are cultural and remain in need of addressing.

However, as far as sport is concerned can we really cater equally for each and every minority and are not the ones who will really suffer those ‘natural females’ who might find themselves competing against trans gender females who possess ‘male’ strength? That can’t be right but the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

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Yes you are totally correct RA.
But a loud mouth minority of protestors, seem to be able to bully people and organisations into submission to conform to their demands.
Common sense I'm afraid, is not on their agenda.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/2...a-ban-history/

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Yes you are totally correct RA.
But a loud mouth minority of protestors, seem to be able to bully people and organisations into submission to conform to their demands.
Common sense I'm afraid, is not on their agenda.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/2...a-ban-history/

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Indeed Tricky...always the way...but some of those you have regularly defended - Tommy Robinson, Farage, Priti Patel amongst others - have frequently been amongst the loudest mouths and the biggest bullies.

It is beholden on those of us in possession of both a functioning moral compass and appropriate level of common sense to ensure that decency and logic win over boorishness and extremism however it manifests itself.

I'm afraid that your concept of common sense (and indeed mine) has nothing to do with this issue rA. It's about making statements, proving how much purer my thoughts are etc. How more aware of the problem of trans athletes I am.... Ah yes, how woke I am.

It's a side effect of wokeness, you might say. Of course provision needs to be made for MTF and FTM athletes in the same way as there is for special needs / differently abled athletes. (Before anyone jumps all over that I'm not suggesting cross gender issues are a disability).

But in the same way that you would not have expected a Class B1 athlete to compete against Usain Bolt, fairness cannot allow a birth male who has recently self identified as female to compete against a field of birth females.

It would be as fair as self identified wombat Swale taking on a field of natural wombats in a pole vault championship

I self identify as a billionaire. The bank won't give me access to my billions..... So unfair, I'm offended ;)

PS - it seems that birth females and birth males are referred to as CIS.

Ah, is that what that means

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Apart from the fact that transgender folk deserve the same level of respect as anyone else...is transgender in sport really a ‘woke issue’.

….. the answer is rooted in nothing more than common sense so let’s not over complicate things.

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Yet that’s where it DOES become such. Common sense, in the minds of those who support the inclusion of male to female tg athletes in female sport, does not exist, and they necessarily (to strengthen their argument for inclusion of a dominant minority) DO complicate things

On this one I really do have a strong opinion and imo Seb Coe is right, fairness must always stand above inclusion

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

I self identify as a billionaire. The bank won't give me access to my billions..... So unfair, I'm offended ;)

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That's probably a Dutch billionaire though, so much lower than an English one because of tax??

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

That's probably a Dutch billionaire though, so much lower than an English one because of tax??

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No, my billions weren't gathered via gambling or letting dwellings.....