Careless Tories!

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

".....the lack of involvement of the electorate being an obvious issue, rarely seen or heard unless they are directly affected....."

So you are now a fan of referenda then? I recall the electorate were recently involved in a decision that you could not support and berated them as gammons and thick for referendumising the way they did. Can't recall what it was about, exit or something perhaps??

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No thats not what I was talking about! Though interestingly the Swiss seem to be able to use referendums more, not sure how they organise and manage this but given their reputation for efficiency its not surprising it works.

Of course, one would have to have a level of regulation and fact checking so that empty unprovable slogans and promises were not bandied about as the truth and the funding of campaigns etc. would have to be strictly controlled so a bunch of rich people were less able to influence matters to their own advantage.

Involvement of the electorate as in actually giving a toss about whats happening, being involved even at a local level in politics, actually understanding that politics as in life means compromise and not getting everything one wants and that other needs and requirements are equally valid and need to be accommodated in some way.

It obvious from both election results and that ill conceived and badly managed referendum that a lot of people are completely ignorant of reality!

If there is a subject that needs to be on the national curriculum, it would be politics, never mind about maths - actually having a clue about politics and how the UK and other countries are governed would be a start!!

Above all actually bloody voting!!! In fact one of the first things I'd do would be to make voting mandatory! I'd also use technology to make it simpler and more accessible.

But as ever, you make broad statements such as all politicians are sleazebags without thought as to those that aren't and how a system might be reformed.

And yes Labour is prone to issues, but on the other hand they did reduce NHS waiting lists, improved schools and raise millions of people out of poverty and actually stop a world financial crisis completely wrecking the country, only for the Tories to do that in the succeeding 13 years!

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It starts at school where the idea is to train people to conform to the status quo which, these days, is working your ass off for less than your efforts are worth until you are 67+ and that will be 70 inside the next 15 years.

It's not slavery but it's not the way it should be, either. It keeps workers chained to dead end jobs. Maybe not the same one throughout a working life but an underpaid and overworked one just the same.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

It starts at school where the idea is to train people to conform to the status quo which, these days, is working your ass off for less than your efforts are worth until you are 67+ and that will be 70 inside the next 15 years.

It's not slavery but it's not the way it should be, either. It keeps workers chained to dead end jobs. Maybe not the same one throughout a working life but an underpaid and overworked one just the same.

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So it’s all rA’s fault! Poor fallible chap’s having a bad few days.
Seriously though, don’t agree. Even in ‘my day’ teachers had no chance of dragging most kids out of mundanity because there was and will always be a genuinely ‘thick’ but also a massive minority with potential but lack of direction, which teachers could/can only do so much to influence but parents very much should

I’d also argue that (too) many opt out of the working population completely with the blessing of an increasingly soft benefit system which favours them over genuine hard working low paid people.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

So it’s all rA’s fault! Poor fallible chap’s having a bad few days.
Seriously though, don’t agree. Even in ‘my day’ teachers had no chance of dragging most kids out of mundanity because there was and will always be a genuinely ‘thick’ but also a massive minority with potential but lack of direction, which teachers could/can only do so much to influence but parents very much should

I’d also argue that (too) many opt out of the working population completely with the blessing of an increasingly soft benefit system which favours them over genuine hard working low paid people.

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Which is why I favour changing the school system. More time should be spent on things other than the 3 Rs. I'm not saying ditch all the subjects but they should be tailored to pupils' interests and possible futures. Before leaving secondary school, I believe pupils should be equipped with the tools of life as well as the academic things they get taught. Cooking, budgeting, gardening, simple car/bike mechanics, music, how the "system" works and how they might possibly affect it, childcare and other basics of life. Most parents aren't either capable of it and/or don't care enough.

Teach them things that are relevant to their skills and aspirations. Teach them how to live rather than exist. There is a life outside of the education, work too long for too little, retire and die soon afterwards syndrome. Show then that possibility and prepare them to take that leap in the dark.

It's not the slavery of old but it's all about the money and not about LIFE. If I knew what I know now and could go back to being 16 again, I wouldn't have followed the same "career path". At 16, school and parents had taught me to conform to the life required by the "system". Study hard, work hard and you'll get on. Not so much of the first bit but I did all of that and pushed myself into 2 burnouts. The 1st far worse than the 2nd as I recognised symptoms and stopped. The first saw 6 months pass before I was back part time and another 5 months pass between then and being back to work full time. I looked at my options the 2nd time and realised I could afford to retire at 60 and I did just that. Since then I've been buying and selling records and DJing. Income from gigs nowhere near covers the amount spent on vinyl but it's a hobby and one I thoroughly enjoy. Happy as a sandlark. There's more to life than working yourself into a mental breakdown and/or an early grave.

Really pleased my eldest became a pilot, something he always wanted to be, and is not overworked. He says it's fun. Not like work at all. My other son is a sound engineer and musician. Also following his dream. It doesn't seem like he's ever going to be rich, in a monetary sense, but he is doing something he loves and that is worth far more than I was led to believe back in my youth.

Way too late, I realised I was chasing the wrong dream. It wasn't my dream, it was me helping the system to keep the rich, rich and at our expense. I sincerely hope I've got another 20 odd good years, and more, in me to live life for me rather than than generate things for others on my hamster wheel as I did throughout much of my working life.

Best bit for me was running my training company giving IT courses, Business English courses, Communication and Presentation courses at companies. Doing as much or little as I wanted. It also allowed me to do the FA Level 1, 2 and 3 coaching courses and other football related courses. Those things combined led to a teaching job at a Sports College which saw me coaching for a week, twice a year, along with UEFA B students of ours, at Moor Farm. Absolutely brilliant. I learned way too late to start doing things I enjoy. More folk should do that more often.

Quite simply, the system of how we live needs a makeover. The 1% won't like it but they've run the show for their own benefit for too long. Life shouldn't be the drudgery (some would say modern slavery) it is for many. From 2002 (following a heart attack) I got out of the treadmill and did things I wanted to. I did bear in mind the need to earn money but I did that doing things for me (and the family) rather than going back to the grind of 70 to 80 hours a week as an IT manager that I'd done for way too long. 40 a week should be sufficient to provide for your family. It used to be but isn't anymore.

Rant over.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

So it’s all rA’s fault! Poor fallible chap’s having a bad few days.
Seriously though, don’t agree. Even in ‘my day’ teachers had no chance of dragging most kids out of mundanity because there was and will always be a genuinely ‘thick’ but also a massive minority with potential but lack of direction, which teachers could/can only do so much to influence but parents very much should

I’d also argue that (too) many opt out of the working population completely with the blessing of an increasingly soft benefit system which favours them over genuine hard working low paid people.

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How on earth am I having a ‘bad few days’? I responded to you yesterday with points you have yet to reply to. I had the healthiest and most sensible exchange with GP that I’ve probably had since he was RR and we agreed that we are both on the same side. My team had one of those deeply satisfying late wins last night and I’ve got a ticket for the West Ham game after all...now it’s warming up.

I also agree entirely with MA’s observations about the education system. Coincidentally (perhaps) we are the only two to have worked within it. No ‘bad few days’ for me. Not for the first time...no idea what you’re talking about.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Which is why I favour changing the school system. More time should be spent on things other than the 3 Rs. I'm not saying ditch all the subjects but they should be tailored to pupils' interests and possible futures. Before leaving secondary school, I believe pupils should be equipped with the tools of life as well as the academic things they get taught. Cooking, budgeting, gardening, simple car/bike mechanics, music, how the "system" works and how they might possibly affect it, childcare and other basics of life. Most parents aren't either capable of it and/or don't care enough.

Teach them things that are relevant to their skills and aspirations.

Rant over.

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I sort of agree on the first paragraph, I actually think there should be MORE 3rs but slanted towards their use in the real world rather than complex stuff

The problem with the second paragraph though (and this is a personal real world example), what happens when all everyone wants to be is a hip hop artiste? There’s got to be a bit of realism applied

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

How on earth am I having a bad few days?.

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I was just having a laugh rA

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

I was just having a laugh rA

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Really? Suppose it makes a slight change from your usual ‘just joshing’ cop out. Still...if it brightened your day to groundlessly say I’m ‘having a bad few days’ that’s up to you.

I think MA was suggesting that the 3Rs should be ‘slanted towards their use in the real world’. That was his point...or part of it.

I thought it was because you had a cold RA lol .
For us thickos who aren't teachers or who don't have kids in school... What are the 3 Rs?
I'm guessing that respect isn't one of them