If we reach the Play offs...

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Originally Posted by Jules88

For all we think we aren’t lower league…. We actually are. In most things. Longest serving member of the “second tier” or not, we are no big hitters any more. Financially, or of reputation.
I think we may have found our place for a long time in this division if we don’t go up, or under.

Totally agree with you ref John Dennis.

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Disagree Jules. I think this is a championship club with a championship stadium and a championship set up with the training facilities & academy. Compare our set up here to most clubs in this division, it's miles apart.

Ok, we've been run like a third division club for the last 20 years and maybe that's a reflection on why we've had a few season's in league 1 during that time. Never thought we were 'big hitters' at any point and I honestly believe many Barnsley fans wouldn't think that either.

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Originally Posted by animallittle3

Before Moneyball we had 8 consecutive seasons in the championship .

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Where did we finish in the league during that time?
Bottom 6.
Every season a relegation battle.
And how many supporters do you know that drifted away from the club during that time?
As they knew the club was going nowhere.

In Patrick we had a wealthy owner in our eyes - but in comparison to other club owners he was relatively poor.

During that time we were trying to fish in the same pond as clubs like Derby etc - who continue to fish in the same pond i.e. trying to out bid other clubs for players that have been around the block a few times - players with experience - players costing huge sums that ask for huge wages.
We were left with loan signings and players on one year contracts.
Patrick told us it was unsustainable.
And of course it was.

Patrick / James changed the traditional way of doing things and plotted a new path for the club that was based on changing the style of football (high press) and by identifying players, usually young players, that can play that style.
Each head coach slotting straight in to where the other left off.
To come up with a strategy like that in itself is a sign of brilliance.

However - we now know that the way forward had been muddled as PMG wanted instant money from the club without putting any money in of their own.
While at the same time PMG splashed the cash that had already been accumulated at the club.

Fans have to ask themselves.
Before signing for the club - did any of our supporters consider signing any of these ……
Duff
Stendel
Struber
Ismael
Bobby Thomas
Kichen
Mads
Luca
Tedic
Collins
Isted

Or in the past years players such as
Helik
Morris
Brittain
The list goes on.

All of them identified by one person - James Cryne.

Yes there’s been some players that haven’t made the grade - but they have cost the club relatively little.
This is where the genius lies.
Even Chien Lee proclaiming this before the 20/21 playoff finals - ‘we have reached the playoffs with the lowest budget in the league’.
It wasn’t Chien Lee or Paul Conway that brought in that head coach and those players to get to those playoffs.
That was James Cryne.

The coming together of money (Neerav, JAQ) with the genius of James Cryne is a remedy for success at Barnsley.
Mark my words on this.

And before anyone mentions signings from last season - obviously they haven’t kept up with events.

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Originally Posted by Young_Nudger

The coming together of money (Neerav, JAQ) with the genius of James Cryne is a remedy for success at Barnsley.
Mark my words on this.
.

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In my opinion the main, possibly only, reason we have been successful so far this season in a poor Third Division is the appointment of Duff, who was looking to the next step in his career from Cheltenham. The Owners handed him a collection of free transfers and loan players and not many would have made that work. Parekh, Edmonds and Cryne are riding on his coat-tails.

I don't understand the comment on Parekh's and JAQ's money input. Apart from being members of the original Consortium who have not used any of their own money yet to purchase the club (the first instalment of £750,000 was taken from club accounts) all they have done financially as the new board is announce three Emergency Share Issues to sustain the club.

In those share issues Lee, Conway and Hung have bought a total of £2,264,900 worth of shares compared to Parekh's £2, 026,600. JAQ's husband Matthew Edmond's Hedge Fund has put in a relatively small £ 368,500. Edmond's only has a 6.11% share in the club and his wife JAQ is his bubbly representative at Barnsley FC.

I still want to think of the Championship (the old Second Division) as being our level, and where we belong etc. But the facts suggest its not anymore, and its getting harder each time we're there, to stay competitive.
I know its changed a lot since then, and our expectation levels were much higher as well. But look at how disappointed we all were with a top half finish under John Hendrie. That sort of finish would be great for us now, if we could manage it!.
It needs ambition though and that has to start at the top. And not this pathetic so called moneyball strategy where its simply greed and all about making money.

A significant number of Championship clubs benefit from the financial boost of £100 million plus for finishing in the Premiership relegation zone and then large parachute payments for three years. Clubs not recently in the Premiership are at a big disadvantage financially.

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Originally Posted by Acido

I still want to think of the Championship (the old Second Division) as being our level, and where we belong etc. But the facts suggest its not anymore, and its getting harder each time we're there, to stay competitive.
I know its changed a lot since then, and our expectation levels were much higher as well. But look at how disappointed we all were with a top half finish under John Hendrie. That sort of finish would be great for us now, if we could manage it!.
It needs ambition though and that has to start at the top. And not this pathetic so called moneyball strategy where it’s simply greed and all about making money.

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Yep - traditionally we have been 2nd tier.
What I would like to see is a period in the Premier to see what impact it has on the club.
In the same way it has done for clubs like
Hull
Bradford
Blackburn
Bolton
etc etc
It’s made a significant change to the fan base of these clubs.
No one yet knows the potential at Barnsley because we have never had a prolonged period of success of say two or more years in the Premier.

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Originally Posted by Young_Nudger

Yep - traditionally we have been 2nd tier.
What I would like to see is a period in the Premier to see what impact it has on the club.
In the same way it has done for clubs like
Hull
Bradford
Blackburn
Bolton
etc etc
It’s made a significant change to the fan base of these clubs.
No one yet knows the potential at Barnsley because we have never had a prolonged period of success of say two or more years in the Premier.

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Yeh they all went bankrupt eventually with Bolton and currently Bradford having spells in league two .

Blackburn and Hull dropped in to league one .

It was impressive what Bradford did, going up to the Prem and staying there for 2 seasons. But, now look at them in their more recent times, struggling to get out of the Fourth Division.
And how many other former Premier/First Division clubs are at that level now, or even lower like Notts County.
And none of them were run by Sir Paul Conway!!. 😖

Football success and failure does tend to go in cycles but less so nowadays. Remember the days when clubs like Northampton, Carlisle and Wimbledon could rise through the pyramid hierarchy.

Nowadays the Bournemouths and Brentfords have to be backed by money.

I recall the days of Derby under Brian Clough and Ipswich under Bobby Robson. There was even a time when Sheffield Wednesday were a massive club.

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Originally Posted by Acido

It was impressive what Bradford did, going up to the Prem and staying there for 2 seasons. But, now look at them in their more recent times, struggling to get out of the Fourth Division.
And how many other former Premier/First Division clubs are at that level now, or even lower like Notts County.
And none of them were run by Sir Paul Conway!!. 😖

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I suspect all of those clubs have been run similar to how Paul Conway run Barnsley - that is to say in the traditional way of doing things - trying to out bid other clubs for players with reputations that had been around the block a few times.
Which underlines what I’m saying about the new path that Patrick and James plotted for Barnsley.
But look what impact a spell in the Premier has had on the attendances at those clubs.
I remember a time - and I suspect many on here will do - when Barnsley Blackburn Bolton Hull and Bradford were very much similar.