O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

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Originally Posted by Acido

What makes you think that Robinson just speaks hatred and bile. Dont you believe anything he says is right ?

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Because the newspapers he reads and websites he visits have brainwashed him to think that ANYTHING Tommy Robinson says is wrong, because he is a massive racist. Honestly mate, this one is way too far gone to even debate with. You're wasting your time.

If he has actually taken his time to watch the video, and if he wasn't so far indoctrinated, he would see that the ONLY hatred and bile in that video was directed towards the Islamic extremists. But brasstwohat doesn't like that anyway, it goes against everything he believes in to ever dare to suggest it has something to do with Islam.

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Originally Posted by kempo

LOL..in a serious and respectful way of course at this time but here is a classic of all classic.Ellis suggests the Death Penalty!

I bet that will deter suicide bombers!!

Some of the posts on here show that the terrorists have achieved exactly what they wanted.

I am no liberal apologist but some of the views on here are indeed shockingly racist eg using the term Muslim instead of Islamic terrorist!

The vast majority of Muslims live in perfect harmony with the rest of our community..I live near and visit Leicester regularly so observe this.

These disgusting extremist people are psychopathic killers who attach themselves to Islam to justify murdering children.

Muslims generally interpret their scriptures within the bounds of a modern 21 st century world as do most Christians.

How these disaffected individuals become radicalised to such an extent..I honestly don't know...bu t the man who shouted "Bro you are no Muslim" at a knife man tells us exactly how the Muslim community should view these people not as fellow Muslims more as 'losers'..well done Trump on this occasion.

Severe penalties for those on the 'known list' would prevent security services tracking the individuals to obtain the serious information and making mistakes imprisoning totally innocent people would encourage disaffection and make the situation worse.

Can the Muslim Community do more?..Personally I think yes..Contrary to what such as Kerravon believes I think many of these extremists are known to the community but there is a Muslim brotherhood which prevents them being turned in to the authorities..There is anecdotal evidence and evidence from surveys.

Muslim community leaders should let it be known that these extremists are NOT MUSLIMS and their God will not save them and reward them.

To me posts such as made by Ellis are indeed racist as he interchanges Muslims with Islamic terrorist as do others and that is wrong in every way and is racist.

I don't have too many answers to the situation but I greet Muslims with open arms but despise Islamic terrorists.

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Ellis is a realist not a racist..

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Originally Posted by kempo

LOL..in a serious and respectful way of course at this time but here is a classic of all classic.Ellis suggests the Death Penalty!

I bet that will deter suicide bombers!!

Some of the posts on here show that the terrorists have achieved exactly what they wanted.

I am no liberal apologist but some of the views on here are indeed shockingly racist eg using the term Muslim instead of Islamic terrorist!

The vast majority of Muslims live in perfect harmony with the rest of our community..I live near and visit Leicester regularly so observe this.

These disgusting extremist people are psychopathic killers who attach themselves to Islam to justify murdering children.

Muslims generally interpret their scriptures within the bounds of a modern 21 st century world as do most Christians.

How these disaffected individuals become radicalised to such an extent..I honestly don't know...bu t the man who shouted "Bro you are no Muslim" at a knife man tells us exactly how the Muslim community should view these people not as fellow Muslims more as 'losers'..well done Trump on this occasion.

Severe penalties for those on the 'known list' would prevent security services tracking the individuals to obtain the serious information and making mistakes imprisoning totally innocent people would encourage disaffection and make the situation worse.

Can the Muslim Community do more?..Personally I think yes..Contrary to what such as Kerravon believes I think many of these extremists are known to the community but there is a Muslim brotherhood which prevents them being turned in to the authorities..There is anecdotal evidence and evidence from surveys.

Muslim community leaders should let it be known that these extremists are NOT MUSLIMS and their God will not save them and reward them.

To me posts such as made by Ellis are indeed racist as he interchanges Muslims with Islamic terrorist as do others and that is wrong in every way and is racist.

I don't have too many answers to the situation but I greet Muslims with open arms but despise Islamic terrorists.

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Kempo, I give you the credit of being more intelligent than that, so you are just being obnoxious. If there are 4000 potential terrorists and we round them up and give them the death penalty, where exactly am I trying to suggest using that as a deterrent to would-be suicide bombers? If we killed them all BEFORE they killed lots of us, that would obviously prevent any terror attacks from them. As a doctor I would have thought you would have recognised that prevention is better than a cure!

Now show me ONE single post I have made which is racist? Where I have used the word Muslim rather than Islamic extremist, it is because I am talking about Muslims, not just the extremists. If I say that more Muslims in our country can only be a bad thing, I don't mean because ALL Muslims are extremists. But it is simple mathematics. The more Muslims who arrive here, the more terrorists will be here. That's very basic, even a young child can understand percentages.

So tell me, where have I been racist?

Tick tock as you say......

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Originally Posted by harpo88

The danger I suppose of killing or deporting anyone who's just a suspect is that that becomes a recruiting message for others and might lead to more threats.

The other question is if they are born in the UK, where do you deport them to? If their family has lived in the country for generations?

And although violent terrorism is immediately shocking and causes great distress and death and injury, it's not the biggest killer. Should we not be considering treating the same those who knowingly cause excessive air pollution (cited as killing thousands a year, VW cheating on their emissions declarations), or aggressively flogging products that cause heart disease and cancer (fast food, alcohol) (ok in this case you could say people choose to use those things but they know how to advertise to essentially make sure people buy lots of them.

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No, and it's a ridiculous thing to even suggest. It amazes me that anyone could even mention it, in all honesty. We all choose what we eat and drink and take those risks long term. That is called choice. No-one chooses to be murdered by a terrorist.

I know what let's all gather round holding hands and sing songs with our heads up our arses and say things like we stand together we're not scared they won't win.
Yep that should do it.
Or you can be honest like Ellis and a few others but oh no that's racist isn't it?
The attitude of some towards this issue is just staggering.

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Originally Posted by millmoormagic

Me neither, and for once, i agree 100% with Kempo's post above.

I don't purport to know the short term answers to attacks like this, i'm sure that if the security services had any inkling then they'd have picked this bloke up and stopped it. The point is that we cannot as a decent, civilised society bow down to these murdering b astards, but by the same token we cannot punish a whole community either, i'm absolutely adamant that the muslim community could, and should, do much more, but ostracising them does no good for anyone.

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Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

You can't choose what air you breathe in.

People who sell guns don't kill people.

The thing is Ellis is that principle and precedent are important, not least as the basis of our legal system. So if you're advocating far stricter measures against one type of person who makes a choice that harms lots of people, would you not advocate that for others who do it in a different way? If you say that terrorism, or being even slightly or accidentally complicit in it, is a special case then you might well be right, but there's a question as to whether it should be.

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Originally Posted by Yak

I know what let's all gather round holding hands and sing songs with our heads up our arses and say things like we stand together we're not scared they won't win.
Yep that should do it.
Or you can be honest like Ellis and a few others but oh no that's racist isn't it?
The attitude of some towards this issue is just staggering.

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Exactly mate. Praying, singing songs, holding vigils, a Love Manchester/Paris/Munich, etc, etc filter on Facebook, more pointless talking, it achieves NOTHING.

Action is required.

I trust and value our secret services and intelligence 100%, and we are now at critical level for the first time in over ten years. That's means we are in imminent danger of another attack. That's not just guessing. That's not just the powers-that-be trying to make us all scared, as some sick freaks have suggested. That is because they have information which leads them to believe another attack is being planned and is close to being executed.

The police have made raids and arrested a few. Let's arrest a few more. And let's stick two fingers up to their human rights. Because, and I know some people don't know enough about these things so they bleat on about "it's not all Muslims", "we can't tar an entire community with the same brush" and all the other sh!te, BECAUSE there is sound information that suggests these people could be planning terror attacks. That could be speaking to other known terrorists online, preaching hate and asking for terror attacks in our country, known links with other terrorists or they could be one of the 50,000 British Muslims who downloaded the ISIS terror manual! Yeah, that's quite a large minority of potential terrorists there isn't?!?!

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Originally Posted by harpo88

You can't choose what air you breathe in.

People who sell guns don't kill people.

The thing is Ellis is that principle and precedent are important, not least as the basis of our legal system. So if you're advocating far stricter measures against one type of person who makes a choice that harms lots of people, would you not advocate that for others who do it in a different way? If you say that terrorism, or being even slightly or accidentally complicit in it, is a special case then you might well be right, but there's a question as to whether it should be.

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No, because again, people aren't purposely selling fuel in order to kill people.

Guns is a slightly different issue, but it's very difficult to purchase firearms in this country compared to most others. But again, although I disagree with the legal sale of firearms to any citizens, the people who sell them can quite clearly argue that they don't intend for anyone to kill someone with it. It can be a hobby, or for hunting, or any number of reasons.

And we are changing the subject matter slightly there anyway, because as you say, the people selling guns aren't purposely killing people.

Terrorists ARE trying to MURDER people. So it's a completely different ball game. Do I say lock up anyone where there is a clear danger they are going to try to murder multiple people? Yes. Because that is common sense.

Do I say lock up anyone for selling food, petrol or guns LEGALLY, then no I don't, as they aren't trying to murder people, and it isn't against the law. Again, simple common sense.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

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Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.