Not bad for Fizzy Players.......

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Originally Posted by toptoon

Just so I understand your point of view. You admit that Rafa has had a successful career (his record shows it), I mean he won the Champions League and so he has some idea of football, yes?

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Of course he's had a reasonably successful career and of course he knows his football but that doesn't mean it's always spot on, which was my grievance earlier on.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

You also think that all he had to do in the mid part of the season was send the team forward and we would've won loads more games.

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Nope, not at all. I wanted him to play more balanced football to give some entertainment out earlier on because no matter what you say, he didn't do it and continually played dire football for most of the games earlier on.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

Don't you think that is a rather simple thing for a manager of his calibre to have missed. I mean,really?

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Well he seemed to have missed the fact that playing Joselu and over cautious football was zapping the life out of the players who started to lose form and gusto due to it.
Allowing Kenedy to express himself on loan caused him to also allow others to do likewise. This is the football I expected and demanded as a minimum and now we're producing it because he changed up his errors.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

Remembering that he works with the team all through the week, every week, I think your "dire football" argument is naive in the extreme.

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It was far from naive, It was was absolute truth as far as my enjoyment went.
If you thought otherwise than that's you. I said what I said and stand by it but I also accept that he's getting it right.

My wanting him sacked was over the top but was borne out of sheer frustration.
If I ever see him do that with the team/squad what he done earlier, I'll crucify him again.
As for now he deserves plaudits and long may it continue.

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Originally Posted by Geordie_Exile_De

Exactly.

PBoro, I don't need to lie. I remembered your slating of the team towards the the end of our championship winning season. Three hops and I was on the page with posts from that time. 5 minutes was a slight exageration to be honest, as it only took two or three.

There are numerous posts from you at the time that prove that you to be either a hypocrite or a WUM.

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no i slated the way we were playing
boring footy and at no point do I think we looked anything like the team we should have

yes we were fizzy players as that was the league we were in and we brought players to get us out
however ash apent a fortune on them
we played proabaly 2 good games

the last being the best
my gripe last year was we won but at no point do I think we looked the stand out team like we did when chris was in charge or like wolves have this year

I have made several points this year that the players by winning deserve to be called prem players

we have started to play in a completely different way in the last 5 games than we have since rafa took over

anyone can see it
and if you cant then you shouldn't be watching footy just looking at a screen drooling as you don't understand what you are watching

and because rafa is playing this way the players are playing to their abilities and strengths

hence why I said often on here
we didn't need players just a new manager

yes one player he brought in is making a significant part in this but I do think we have players that could do the same if played

we used to just drop of as soon as we lost the ball
the last 5 games we have pressed the ball from the front ,and diame is doing it as well
we are getting bodies forward
we weren't 5 games ago
we used to hoy it up to joselwho (remember the one rafa wouldn't drop) and then meander up to him

we defended on our 18 yard line
we now defend much further up

shelve isn't being asked to defend but to close down

the two wide men did just drop back as soon as we lost the ball
now depending on which side the ball is we press the ball and the other side tuck in

We were not a stand out team under Hughton until the Jan window when he brought in Routledge, Simpson and Willamson.. but especially Routledge.

We were f**king awful most of the first half of that season, and I remember distinctly going to Brighton (funnily enough) winning by 1 goal and thinking the football we saw was winning but f**king awful to watch before the transfer window.

Don’t talk about people not being able to see what’s in front of them then make sh!t up to suit your fantasyland story.

Shelvey isn’t being asked to defend becasue Rafa has improved Diame, and a Diame is now playing according to Rafa’s plan allowing Shelvey freedom to play to his strengths.

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Originally Posted by ghostrider

Of course he's had a reasonably successful career and of course he knows his football but that doesn't mean it's always spot on, which was my grievance earlier on.


Nope, not at all. I wanted him to play more balanced football to give some entertainment out earlier on because no matter what you say, he didn't do it and continually played dire football for most of the games earlier on.

Well he seemed to have missed the fact that playing Joselu and over cautious football was zapping the life out of the players who started to lose form and gusto due to it.
Allowing Kenedy to express himself on loan caused him to also allow others to do likewise. This is the football I expected and demanded as a minimum and now we're producing it because he changed up his errors.


It was far from naive, It was was absolute truth as far as my enjoyment went.
If you thought otherwise than that's you. I said what I said and stand by it but I also accept that he's getting it right.

My wanting him sacked was over the top but was borne out of sheer frustration.
If I ever see him do that with the team/squad what he done earlier, I'll crucify him again.
As for now he deserves plaudits and long may it continue.

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You’ll also remember him predicting that the second half of the season would be better than the first.
Do you think it’s because he thought - right I’ll send the team forward in the second half of the season?

He has of course but you need to ask why he didn’t before? You think it’s because he didn’t know the players he was working with. I’ll say that the players he had were not ready to play that type of football (personnel - Manquillo? and form: Diame, Perez, Ritchie, etc.)

Remember Fergie’s first few months at MU? They nearly fired him.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

You’ll also remember him predicting that the second half of the season would be better than the first.
Do you think it’s because he thought - right I’ll send the team forward in the second half of the season?

He has of course but you need to ask why he didn’t before? You think it’s because he didn’t know the players he was working with. I’ll say that the players he had were not ready to play that type of football (personnel - Manquillo? and form: Diame, Perez, Ritchie, etc.)

Remember Fergie’s first few months at MU? They nearly fired him.

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Correct there TopToon. The directors at Manure were all for replacing Fergie but Bobby Charlton persuaded them to give him time to get the squad in he wanted and get them playing his way.

The rest is history.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

You’ll also remember him predicting that the second half of the season would be better than the first.
Do you think it’s because he thought - right I’ll send the team forward in the second half of the season?

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I don't know what he thought. All I knew was, he made some mental head scratching and totally bizarre decisions in so many games.
If you want to call that some kind of managerial seasonal plan then fair comment, you are welcome to it. I called it how I seen it. Dire football that sickened me to the stomach. It was Embarrassing on far too many occasions.

And him saying the second half of the season will be better than the first, I don't recall, but if he did he was working on a wing and a prayer, because Kenedy and Dubravka may not have hit the ground running...but, they did, so, if you want to say he gambled and it paid off, I'll buy into that but I will not buy into the earlier season nonsense of playing Joselu and what not and refusing to use Mitrovic.
However, I won't get into an argument about Mitrovic or anything at the moment because it's done.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

He has of course but you need to ask why he didn’t before? You think it’s because he didn’t know the players he was working with. I’ll say that the players he had were not ready to play that type of football (personnel - Manquillo? and form: Diame, Perez, Ritchie, etc.)

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I don't buy any of that.
He played a system that was destroying what he had at his disposal and changed it to suit those players. The result is clear to see.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

Remember Fergie’s first few months at MU? They nearly fired him.

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Yes I do and Mark Robins saved his bacon.
I understand how fickle we can all be. I'm no different because there's certain things I demand, which aren't things that's over the top.

1. I demand effort and commitment from the team. That box is ticked.

2. I demand the manager plays a team in a balanced fashion that gives hope of a result by taking the game to teams by fair percentage...especially at home and throughout the 90 minutes plus...not just a first half of some games and virtually none in others.

What I don't demand is Man City type football, although it would be a joy ;)...

I can stomach a lowly place in the league of I get value for money in entertainment of a moderate order.

Must have been on a wing and a prayer too in the Championship season when he said similar and was right - again.

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Originally Posted by toptoon

Must have been on a wing and a prayer too in the Championship season when he said similar and was right - again.

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Right about what?

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Originally Posted by Nufcian

Shelvey isn’t being asked to defend becasue Rafa has improved Diame, and a Diame is now playing according to Rafa’s plan allowing Shelvey freedom to play to his strengths.

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shelvey is defending
but not how he was asked prior to the last 5- games

the truth is rafa wanted to play a certain way
his way
which is fine many managers do this

but many managers after a couple of years or seasons would be able to work out the strengths of the players he has at his disposal

and get a sysytem that suits those players he has
not what he wants or think he has but what they can actually do

he is getting it right now thank god

but it took him far to long and cost us far to many points
he gambled with our future for his own vanity

any manager (modern manager) would get us playing as we are now with the players we have now but much sooner than rafa did

his ignorance and arrogance to continually change a side and keep playing the likes of josewho etc was costing us points

we are now playing positive atacking footy
something we havent doen under rafa up to now
ap pity he didnt play like this when he firts took over
he may not have failed and kept us up