OT: What a pillock

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Originally Posted by AltyPie

In your opinion, what evidence of Russian interference is strong enough to justify another Referendum in 2019?

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During the campaign there was a poster on here (I think Smiffy) who reposted a fake quote by Schulz basically saying the Brits could go **** themselves which I traced back to Sputnik, so that's anecdotal evidence of interference which reached its target and resonated.

Then there's the fact that the Russian ambassador to London acted as a go between to offer the largest contributor to the Leave campaign cheap gold mining concessions in Russia, which said businessman then lied about, which is suspicious but there's nothing concrete as yet.

Nothing to do with Russia but there's also the fact that non UK citizens (Commonwealth citizens) were allowed to vote while millions of Brits who live in Europe were barred from voting, I'll just throw that in there seeing as you brought up disenfranchisement.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

Your whole post was about lies from the remain side. Now you post this patronising post. I didn't believe the bus slogan which is why I said it 'inferred' the money to the NHS. It was a deliberately misleading slogan.

So here's a simple question for you.

Were there lies and deception from the Leave side? It only needs a yes or no, just like the referendum!

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Yes there was a lie from the leave side or at least a misleading slogan on a bus.
But there were and still are lies and ridiculous statements coming from the remainers even now.

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Originally Posted by tarquinbeech

Jacob fails to understand that the "younger generation" eventually grow up....idealism goes out of the window and it's every man for himself and his family....if you want to chuck a few pennies at the beggar in the street, go ahead....but don't chuck my money with it, ask me first....give me a choice.

Communism-Socialism has never EVER worked....ask the Venezuelans begging for food and toilet paper at the border.

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Couldn't agree more, the young become old and with experience of life and having to stand on their own two feet they might have a different outlook.

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Originally Posted by AltyPie

...I see the BFP RDS is getting OTT ATM lol.

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I r t p w u a a e k w t s f a a b o t.

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Originally Posted by i961pie

Yes there was a lie from the leave side or at least a misleading slogan on a bus.
But there were and still are lies and ridiculous statements coming from the remainers even now.

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See, any comments from the remainers are lies or ridiculous statements.

As I said earlier, if these experts genuinely believe what they are saying is the truth and the likely outcome, would they not be irresponsible to not say them?

What annoys me most about this whole Brexit thing is the attitude of some leavers which goes something like this:

'We won, you lost, you have no right to make any comments and even when you do, it's just lies and scaremongering '

I voted remain, but my standpoint now is that we should get out, but with the best deal possible. This will mean compromise with the EU.

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Originally Posted by AltyPie

In your opinion, what evidence of Russian interference is strong enough to justify another Referendum in 2019?

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Read the post properly please, or at least don’t deliberately misinterprete it. It didn’t imply that Russian interference on its own would trigger another referendum. It said that increasing evidence of interference may influence the result of any referendum held in 2019.

I know that no evidence of any sort will persuade the xenophobes and racists who want us out regardless of the economic cost, at least some of those will have died since 2016. I’ve just about got faith in the rest of the country that many will at last see sense in the coming months.

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Originally Posted by BigFatPie

Read the post properly please, or at least don’t deliberately misinterprete it. It didn’t imply that Russian interference on its own would trigger another referendum. It said that increasing evidence of interference may influence the result of any referendum held in 2019.

I know that no evidence of any sort will persuade the xenophobes and racists who want us out regardless of the economic cost, at least some of those will have died since 2016. I’ve just about got faith in the rest of the country that many will at last see sense in the coming months.

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Strange view you have of people who disagree with you.
I voted leave because I do not like the idea of a Federal Europe.
I don't like where we are now with the EU project and certainly don't like where this may end up.
I voted yes in 1975 to remaining in the Common Market but a Federal EU wasn't on that ballot paper.
If the current EU structure had been on the 1975 ballot paper do you think the vote would have been the same?

By "see sense" do you mean agree with you?
Is democracy only sensible if you get the result you wanted.
I am optimistic about our future but time will tell which side of the argument is correct.

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Originally Posted by AltyPie

Exactly. How does it go? “If a man is not a Socialist at 20 he has no heart, and if he’s not a middle aged Nazi bigot by 45 he has no brain.”

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What has the EU got to do with communism or socialism? It’s a globalised, pro-business, pro-trade, pretty fundamentally capitalist organisation.

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Originally Posted by slack_pie

Nice straw man there.

The state the UK finds itself in is 100% down to the Tory party. They've forever changed the course of our history and identity due to internal politics and infighting, and at no point have they had any idea what they were doing. Their leadership over the last eight years has been nothing more than catastrophic. If you can't see that, you simply aren't looking. No other party would be able to survive such incompetence and disregard for normal people, yet someone they amble on. I despair.

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Nice to see, Mr Slack, that there remain a few Pies with political insight and sound judgement. Where on earth the Mexican pillock is going with his 'Socialism never works' rap, I don't know.
Socialism sure as hell worked in Sweden to give them one of the highest standards of living in the world. And it was socialism that created the welfare state in Britain. Without the influence of socialism and a social conscience, the free market would be making the gap between the haves and have-nots even wider.
All over the planet, there is evidence of the mess that unfettered capitalism can make. Such right wing thinking needs the constant challenge of socialist thought in the political, economic and moral spheres.

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Originally Posted by forwardmagpie

Strange view you have of people who disagree with you.
I voted leave because I do not like the idea of a Federal Europe.
I don't like where we are now with the EU project and certainly don't like where this may end up.
I voted yes in 1975 to remaining in the Common Market but a Federal EU wasn't on that ballot paper.
If the current EU structure had been on the 1975 ballot paper do you think the vote would have been the same?

By "see sense" do you mean agree with you?
Is democracy only sensible if you get the result you wanted.
I am optimistic about our future but time will tell which side of the argument is correct.

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I’ve no idea if the current EU structure would have been voted for in 1975. As I said in the earlier post, despite promises made at the time, the 1975 referendum was overturned in 2016, just as that one probably will be in 2019.

I’ve also no idea why you think the UK is part of a “federal” EU, what laws we’re subjected to by that federal EU that you don’t like or what you base your optimism on for the future. I’ve certainly seen nothing in the negotiations that make me optimistic.