OT James Bond

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Yes, but that further reinforces the observation that sooty was an occasionally used as a racial slur, along with sambo, nig-nog etc

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Indeed...as you say, ‘occasionally’...and by a character portrayed, even at the time, as a racist idiot.

Doesn’t really advance the ‘N****r’ debate, which unfortunately wasn’t just used ‘occasionally’, though does it?

If someone chooses to call their pet ‘Sooty’ or ‘Blacky’, presumably because the animal in question is black, then imo - and that is all it is - it’s just a descriptively based name. That may well have also been equally acceptable in 1930-40’s England as far as the name ‘N****r’ was concerned. I’d hope that it no longer is and, seeing as the grave has been altered very respectfully, that the abandonment of the name has done much more good than harm.

Im not suggesting it advances anything, just helping you to realise that sosty was used in the same way.

I believe the shade of brown that carried the particular epithet has been removed from colour charts as well, although my grandmother used to use the expression routinely in describing the colour of her hall. Such is the changing nature of language

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Im not suggesting it advances anything, just helping you to realise that sosty was used in the same way.

I believe the shade of brown that carried the particular epithet has been removed from colour charts as well, although my grandmother used to use the expression routinely in describing the colour of her hall. Such is the changing nature of language

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One of my favourite colour descriptions was one me Mam used........ Baby's Yellow. Always made me smile.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Im not suggesting it advances anything, just helping you to realise that sosty was used in the same way.

I believe the shade of brown that carried the particular epithet has been removed from colour charts as well, although my grandmother used to use the expression routinely in describing the colour of her hall. Such is the changing nature of language

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Having been corrected by MA I haven’t argued differently, GP...but really no one can sensibly argue that the ‘N’ word isn’t the most notoriously offensive of the words relating to black people.

I also remember my grandmother referring to a girl down the road who had just returned from sun kissed and (to me) exotic Jersey as looking like a ‘little picaninny’. She didn’t mean it offensively and it wasn’t taken as such in the mid sixties...but as you say, the nature and meaning of language changes. Even so, I can’t remember a time when ‘N****r’ was ever used anything but disrespectfully and insultingly, and that is surely the point.

I also possess and inherited collection of "n....r" banks from the victorian/turn of the century period. You put a coin in the hand and pressing a lever feeds it into the mouth of said person. Probably would not be appreciated by the "man in the BLM march" but a black friend of mine found them rather appealing.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Having been corrected by MA I haven’t argued differently, GP...but really no one can sensibly argue that the ‘N’ word isn’t the most notoriously offensive of the words relating to black people.

I also remember my grandmother referring to a girl down the road who had just returned from sun kissed and (to me) exotic Jersey as looking like a ‘little picaninny’. She didn’t mean it offensively and it wasn’t taken as such in the mid sixties...but as you say, the nature and meaning of language changes. Even so, I can’t remember a time when ‘N****r’ was ever used anything but disrespectfully and insultingly, and that is surely the point.

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You are correct. It was always meant to offend as a derogatory term. BUT!!! Black people use it openly to each other. That hardly gives the term credence as being the Satan of all insults does it?

TTR - are you aware of a thing called irony?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

TTR - are you aware of a thing called irony?

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You're kidding, he's a Forest fan, he'll use all that Crimplene drip dry stuff you can just hang straight up

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

You are correct. It was always meant to offend as a derogatory term. BUT!!! Black people use it openly to each other. That hardly gives the term credence as being the Satan of all insults does it?

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...and repeat...again and again and again!

Answered at 1.01 and more recently by GP...stop deflecting.

The question is...was it right or wrong/helpful or unhelpful/well intentioned or PC overkill, to remove the controversially insulting name ‘N****r’ from the grave of a dog belonging to a war hero. Simple as that.

In the light of the facts that we now live in an infinitely more multicultural and cosmopolitan society than was the case back then and that it was done very respectfully, I believe that it was the right thing to do and I’ve said why.

I am clearly in a minority which worries me not one jot. Some, both on here and amongst the ‘petitioners’ will have objected to perceived ‘political correctness’, others will have simply taken a more traditional/historical view and some will be motivated by malicious and racist intent. Where you fit in that particular ‘spectrum’...well that’s for you to say.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

...and repeat...again and again and again!

Answered at 1.01 and more recently by GP...stop deflecting.

The question is...was it right or wrong/helpful or unhelpful/well intentioned or PC overkill, to remove the controversially insulting name ‘N****r’ from the grave of a dog belonging to a war hero. Simple as that.

In the light of the facts that we now live in an infinitely more multicultural and cosmopolitan society than was the case back then and that it was done very respectfully, I believe that it was the right thing to do and I’ve said why.

I am clearly in a minority which worries me not one jot. Some, both on here and amongst the ‘petitioners’ will have objected to perceived ‘political correctness’, others will have simply taken a more traditional/historical view and some will be motivated by malicious and racist intent. Where you fit in that particular ‘spectrum’...well that’s for you to say.

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rA would you have accepted an amended plaque with 'N----r (a common dog name at the time but now considered offensive' ? That achieves this idea being proposed for statues, ie leaving them in situ but putting them in context.