OT Cummings Press Statement

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39502513]Fair enough, Ram...you are at least open minded enough to recognise an alternative stance.

What do you put the ‘media hysteria’ over Cummings down to then...his arrogance, his appearance, his lack of accountability...or just his perceived wrong doing?

He had become a target before coronavirous, much in the same way as Alistair Campbell did, nearly 20 years ago and numerous football managers.

The media take a dislike to someone and aren't satisfied until they're gone. It's easier to judge with football managers, but some 'awful' managers had better records than the media darlings that replaced them or went before them.

It's almost like a game to them, a challenge to see how quickly they can get rid of someone, casting aside all rules of sense and decency.

You will think this bizarre, but take 'I'm a Celebrity' for example, you can usually tell who is going to be voted off because of their actions as seen on the few minutes of viewing, but sometimes their fellow camp mates who are with them 24/7 are genuinely shocked and dismayed. It can only be that the editors have shown us selected clips which have clouded the viewers'decision.

We believe that a lot of people are arse holes because of what the media tell us and vice versa, when we actually know very little about the person, other than what the media want us to know.

Btw, I generally hate the media, if you hadn't already worked it out.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Correct and the politicians making it it sound as bad as espionage, have something to gain.
They all have something to gain, from party advancement to personal agendas.

Cummings IS resoundly hated for the Brexit situation he headed,(deny that all you want RA)
No coincidence to me, that the loudest screamers were vote remainers and seem complicit, in the recent letters sent to Barnier asking for his help to rock the Brexit boat.
Hence Barnier, sends a statement out, thanking them for their letters whilst making it plain, that the EU has/is always open to a two year extension. There will be a financial penalty to that, but hey ho, that's the price.
Cummings stands in the way of that.

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So what are you saying then Cummings is running the government , and you want him sacked if I believed that I would believe in the tooth fairy

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Correct and the politicians making it it sound as bad as espionage, have something to gain.
They all have something to gain, from party advancement to personal agendas.

Cummings IS resoundly hated for the Brexit situation he headed,(deny that all you want RA)
No coincidence to me, that the loudest screamers were vote remainers and seem complicit, in the recent letters sent to Barnier asking for his help to rock the Brexit boat.
Hence Barnier, sends a statement out, thanking them for their letters whilst making it plain, that the EU has/is always open to a two year extension. There will be a financial penalty to that, but hey ho, that's the price.
Cummings stands in the way of that.

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Tricky, what I think or ‘deny’ really isn’t the point...just think about it.

You put all the ‘hatred’ directed towards Cummings down to his role over Brexit and use it to go off on another anti EU rant.

But the facts are that a significant proportion of Tory - pro Brexit Government supporting - MPs have protested against his behaviour and, as regards the Press...the Guardian, the Mirror and, to a lesser extent, the Independent were opposed to Brexit, the rest were largely in favour.

Throughout this thread, and elsewhere, you have attempted to deflect things away from the subject.
You’ve brought up Farage, migrants on the beaches, Barnier, every Labour ‘lockdown’ transgressor, the police, Sturgeon, Muslim funerals, even the wartime bombing of Coventry...and none of it is relevant.

This issue is entirely about the behaviour of the PM’s chief advisor, the ‘do as I say not as I do’ mentality and the PM’s abject attempts to defend both...nothing else.

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Originally Posted by mistaram

So what are you saying then Cummings is running the government , and you want him sacked if I believed that I would believe in the tooth fairy

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I said sack him if that is the yard stick.
But the same will apply to all.
Would you sanction Abbott and her racist rants, stripping her of being an MP?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Tricky, what I think or ‘deny’ really isn’t the point...just think about it.

You put all the ‘hatred’ directed towards Cummings down to his role over Brexit and use it to go off on another anti EU rant.

But the facts are that a significant proportion of Tory - pro Brexit Government supporting - MPs have protested against his behaviour and, as regards the Press...the Guardian, the Mirror and, to a lesser extent, the Independent were opposed to Brexit, the rest were largely in favour.

Throughout this thread, and elsewhere, you have attempted to deflect things away from the subject.
You’ve brought up Farage, migrants on the beaches, Barnier, every Labour ‘lockdown’ transgressor, the police, Sturgeon, Muslim funerals, even the wartime bombing of Coventry...and none of it is relevant.

This issue is entirely about the behaviour of the PM’s chief advisor, the ‘do as I say not as I do’ mentality and the PM’s abject attempts to defend both...nothing else.

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How the fleck is it deflection?
If you want a one dimensional argument, say so.
It is obvious you only want to discuss Cummings as the devil here.
Fine, get on with it. It makes you narrow minded and quite frankly exactly what everyone now thinks of Liberalism.
My argument is right and curse you for disagreeing .

Durham police have come out and said the trip to Durham wasn't a breach. The trip to Barnard Castle was but had an officer stopped him on the way, he would have pointed out the error of his ways and sent him packing as opposed to charging him.

I am still puzzled as to how someone driving with impaired vision didn't get a ticket.

I mean, it's akin to "I've only had 3 pints, I'll put the wife and the wee un in the car and drive 30 miles to see if I'm OK to drive". Utter stupidity and, IMO, illegal and not the way to test your eyesight.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

This issue is entirely about the behaviour of the PM’s chief advisor, the ‘do as I say not as I do’ mentality and the PM’s abject attempts to defend both...nothing else.

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But you see it isnt just about his guilt or otherwise. he has admitted to lockdown breaches, and made excuses, plausible or not.

What it is about is the punishment for those transgressions. Some like you want his head, regardless of the total lack of precedent for that in the entire history of breaches of lockdown. It is entirely appropriate to consider an appropriate punishment in the light of the severity of his actions and when compared to actions taken against others gulity of breaches.

Coventry, Brexit etc are, I agree, not overly relevant, but what is relevant is the fairness of his punishment, and that HAS to be considered in the light of punishments handed out to others equally guilty.This is not a criminal offence, its civil and so has to be reasonable in the circumstances.

So lets just consider what you and a significant portion of the country seem to want - he should be sacked. Now fortunately Adi here is in HR and so he can comment on the unfair dismissal action that would result. He can comment on how the precedent of no other public figure being dismissed for the same offence and so on.

At heart I'm with you, but it is totally unreasonable to single him out. All of them should have been booted at the time the breaches were apparent, but its too late to do a U turn now and reopen all the other cases. As a so called liberal, surely you have to accept the iniquity of treating people differently for similar offences? Sure, he was involved in making the rules, and so should have set a better example to help enforce lockdown, but two months later how does it help NOW to take an action and create a martyr!

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

I said sack him if that is the yard stick.
But the same will apply to all.
Would you sanction Abbott and her racist rants, stripping her of being an MP?

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Best not go on the racist rant had we
It was Cummings when working at the Spectator who put a cartoon in of a Muslim with a bomb under his turban It was only his publishers who saved from a serious back lash

.........he once comported with Satan, he encouraged a hen to steal 6 ears of corn, he encouraged sheep to urinate in the drinking water, send him to Salem for trial or send Jaime Ramón Mercader del RÃ*o with an ice pick..............

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

I said sack him if that is the yard stick.
But the same will apply to all.
Would you sanction Abbott and her racist rants, stripping her of being an MP?

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‘How the fleck is it deflection’?

I honestly don’t think you know you’re doing it any more...we’re talking about Dominic Cummings and you just introduce another random irrelevant name...Diane Abbott.
I’m not a fan of Diane Abbott, although she appears massively popular amongst her constituents.
I couldn’t care less whether she stays as an MP or not, but she is completely irrelevant to this thread, and as long as we’re on the subject of Cummings and you just start parroting...’what about Abbott, what about Farage, what about Kinnock, what about Ali, what about Barnier, what about Churchill, what about Uncle Tom Cobley...well, let’s just say...I’ve got so many better things to do. I give up.