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Originally Posted by ramAnag
Dare I say that tricky makes a valid point about the ancient eqyptians and for that matter what about the Romans, do we start pulling down the colliseum in Rome, where Christians were fed to the lions, for entertainment?
Where does it stop?
I think it's time to have balance and accept that previous practices, although condemned today, were widely accepted at the time. Is there any record of criticism of Colston actions during his life time?
Where indeed. IMO the last ten weeks have seen decades of faltering improvement in national harmony wiped away, and I feel that battle lines on this and other issues are drawn, as a million Swales and TTRs have emerged from the shadows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram59
To be fair Swale he "only" suggested injecting it......... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by swaledale
No because you know my feelings about alcoholQuote:
Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds
Yep...don’t exaggerate Swale! I mean what could possibly go wrong when you inject bleach?Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAmster
Not that there haven’t been other equally senseless and dangerous suggestions from the Trumpster.
Here’s a brief list.
Jan 22nd. ‘We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.’
Feb 24th. ‘The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA.’
Feb 27th. ‘The Democrats are politicising the Coronavirus...this is their new hoax.’
Mar 10th. ‘Be calm. It’s really working out, and a lot of good things are going to happen.’
April 10th. ‘The germ has gotten so brilliant that the antibiotic can’t keep up with it.’
April 18th. ‘If I wasn’t elected, the world would be over.’
Comedians don’t need script writers with lines like that, AF. Those are the ‘leader of the free world’s’ own words...just a small selection.
At the time of writing there have been 6,514,376 cases of Covid and 194,037 deaths in the US.
You may say whatever you like Ram, but isn’t there a huge difference between buildings such as the Coliseum and personal monuments to individuals who have subsequently been discredited?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram59
Doubtless bad things happened in many British castles, in Victorian mills, schoolrooms and workhouses. There is, or used to be, an opportunity at Sudbury Hall for modern day children to crawl through a recreated chimney in the way that poor C18th and C19th children were made to...these are all things that we can learn from.
Unfortunately monuments/statues are usually erected to victors or those who have contemporary approval. This was undoubtedly the case with Saddam Hussein’s statue and Stalin’s in Budapest...both subsequently torn down when a different perspective of their actions was taken.
Didn’t you approve when Ceausescu’s images were destroyed just over thirty years ago?
Did you ever doubt that war criminals who killed thousands of Jews with Hitler’s approval during, and prior to WW2, should have subsequently been hunted down?
If, and I’m not in anyway suggesting this to be the case, such football icons as Brian Clough, Matt Busby or Bill Shankly should now be discovered to have been involved in some really bad and sordid practice it wouldn’t change our views of their achievements, but I wouldn’t want their statues to remain.
So it is, imo, with Colston. He undoubtedly did some good work...but it was ‘paid for’ by the treatment and deaths of those tens of thousands of black slaves. With that in mind a statue of such a character is not, again imo, appropriate in today’s society.
As regards your final question. I think I’m right in saying there was limited criticism during Colston’s lifetime, but a huge amount by the time his statue was erected.
You're missing a massive point there RA, all those you mention were breaking the existing laws and/or accepted behaviours at the time, whereas Colston didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Going back to the odious Trump and his comments regarding covid, as you've listed, he has many stupid quotes attributed to him, but I think he has been wrongfully pilloried for his comments regarding the treatment in this case.
Swale, amongst many in the media, wrongly quotes him as telling people to drink bleach, whereas he actually suggested that scientists could inject something found in disinfectant to clean the blood. Is this any more ridiculous than someone suggesting that rat poison could help thin the blood or mold could kill bacteria in the body, as in warfarin and penicillin?
Within the same statement, he mentioned using uv light to treat the body, scientists are now saying that taking vitamin d supplements will halve the chance of contracting the virus. Not the same, but scientists have isolated what part of sunlight works.
Quite often the truth takes a back seat, where the media are concerned, especially if it doesn't support their view.
Ram, firstly...it’s good to be able to discuss things from such a different perspective without recourse to abuse or inanity...but beyond that we’ll have to continue to disagree.
I accept that Colston wasn’t breaking the law of the time. However law and morality are two very different things.
Colston had actually died long before the Abolitionists managed to have the long overdue Abolition of Slavery Act passed in 1833.
However, the statue concerned wasn’t erected until 1895 - 174 years after Colston’s death - so there can be little, if any doubt, that those responsible for it’s erection, and the subsequent naming of many streets, schools and buildings in Bristol, were fully aware of their benefactor’s wrong doing.
Swale did indeed make a small error insomuch as he described Trump as advising ‘drinking’ bleach rather than injecting it. Either way he recommended the internal use of bleach which is indeed infinitely more ridiculous, and dangerous, than the examples you cite. The use of warfarin and penicillin are good examples of how cures may be discovered via the most unlikely sources but, as I know you know, it’s still not a case of going to the shed/store cupboard and treating yourself with mould or rat poison.
Oddly I recommended the possible use of UV light in the early days of the Covid thread having seen it used in a US hospital as a means of ‘disinfecting’ an individual patient’s room, and I’ve also been taking Vit D (along with Vit C and Zinc) throughout the pandemic. They’re all things commonly recommended by scientists...no great secret there.
I do agree with you that the truth often takes a back seat where the media are concerned. Conversely though, it is often the media who provide access to the truth. The difficulty is knowing when, what and who to believe and, imo, I’ll choose The Independent, The Guardian and the BBC over the Express, The Mail, The Sun, and any number of attention seeking wannabes on YouTube, every time.
Never heard of Anne Marie Waters? That proves my point. You'll never hear of her on the BBC.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Delve deeper into AMW and For Britain. You'll see she is sensible and well-balanced individual.
If Tommy Robinson is just a thug then why shut him up in Belmarsh Prison? Perhaps it would be better to shoot him but instead of celebrating, read what he has to say about Islamic scripture.
How do the BBC treat Trump unfairly? lol Here's a challenge for you. Read BBC online and show me a single fair and objective article on the President, one that doesn't 'crucify' him. It should be easy enough. There's at least one story about him every single day without exception.
By the way, you might find Anne Marie Waters described as a far right activist. I haven't a clue what far right means but I suspect in the case of AMW, it implies that she is one of the few people who have actually read the Quran and dares to talk of the horrors it contains.