O/T:- Force Majeur

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Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse

... think there may be more to the screening hysteria than meets the eye. The Gov set out its priorities - based upon the views of our experts - which have been different to other countries. Interestingly, the UK press, which looks for any negative angle to create attention, has quoted Germany as a role model. However, if we are to believe what we read, they are making a right mess of their testing. Never mind that, it suits the UK press to laud the mighty krauts, so superior in everything they do. Not sure if it's the UK press who have the inferiority complex or Germany which APPEARS to want to be top dog all the time.
Germany, as part of their economic strategy, have a wealth of resources in the pharma sector so are better placed than most countries to carry out testing - but its quantity rather than quality.
Let's not mention the fact that Germany fixed the pricing of the euro to its own advantage, so that economically, the rest of Europe is left trailing ...

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When you refer to 'the UK press' just which newspapers are you citing in your cohort? Please respond with a tick
Sun
Mirror
Mail
Times
Telegraph
Express
Guardian
Independent
Financial Times

... you know very well, Snobhead 2, that the reputation of the UK press sometimes rises above gutter level, no matter to which banner you may wish to
refer. As you know there is such a thing as your truth, my truth and the real truth, never mind anyones view, political or otherwise. Perhaps you would do better to get you head out of your backside and not worry about some of the details. Driller, the master of detail, is, amongst some others, at least presenting an equitable view these days; for which I thank him.
On a much broader front it is becoming increasingly evident that the fudging of numbers in other countries is clear ... probably due to ignorance, incompetence and plain lies. Who's impressed by that ...

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Originally Posted by sidders

When you refer to 'the UK press' just which newspapers are you citing in your cohort? Please respond with a tick
Sun
Mirror
Mail
Times
Telegraph
Express
Guardian
Independent
Financial Times

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I saw this elsewhere - it seems there's not a lot of praise for our government whatever the newspaper:

Attachment 15404

Attachment 15419

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Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse

... you know very well, Snobhead 2, that the reputation of the UK press sometimes rises above gutter level, no matter to which banner you may wish to
refer. As you know there is such a thing as your truth, my truth and the real truth, never mind anyones view, political or otherwise. Perhaps you would do better to get you head out of your backside and not worry about some of the details. Driller, the master of detail, is, amongst some others, at least presenting an equitable view these days; for which I thank him.
On a much broader front it is becoming increasingly evident that the fudging of numbers in other countries is clear ... probably due to ignorance, incompetence and plain lies. Who's impressed by that ...

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Well, H o r s e s h i t 1, according to your manual, it seems we can trust no one - which means you and I are also suspects. What a sad little stable you must live in.

It is said that some countries are deliberately manipulating their statistics to keep their apparent numbers of fatalities low, for political gain or high, for financial support. It would now seem the first low figures that were coming from France were announcing deaths in hospitals only. Now they include ALL deaths thought to be those WITH COVID19, their figures have jumped alarmingly, now 4th in the charts. Can a country who juggle their figures like this be trusted or quoted?

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Originally Posted by LaxtonLad

It is said that some countries are deliberately manipulating their statistics to keep their apparent numbers of fatalities low, for political gain or high, for financial support. It would now seem the first low figures that were coming from France were announcing deaths in hospitals only. Now they include ALL deaths thought to be those WITH COVID19, their figures have jumped alarmingly, now 4th in the charts. Can a country who juggle their figures like this be trusted or quoted?

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'It is said' by whom? Tarquinbeech? Who else?

I very much doubt that any post-lockdown financial stimuli will be allocated based on the number of deaths, like taking your empties back to the bottle bank.

Also, the UK has two sets of figures to include/exclude deaths outside of hospitals.

This whole thing is just turning into the latest excuse for some classic NCM science contradiction/foreigner bashing.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

'It is said' by whom? Tarquinbeech? Who else?

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I very much doubt that any post-lockdown financial stimuli will be allocated based on the number of deaths, like taking your empties back to the bottle bank.

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Also, the UK has two sets of figures to include/exclude deaths outside of hospitals.

This whole thing is just turning into the latest excuse for some classic NCM science contradiction/foreigner bashing.

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Mmmmmm....well that's not what the Guardian were reporting a few days ago....The Dutch-led opposition to a ‘coronabond’ to raise funds for nations hardest-hit by the pandemic is self-defeating

and here......Issued collectively, the “coronabond” would drive down the borrowing costs of some of Europe’s most heavily affected countries, staving off another sovereign debt crisis and freeing up much-needed resources to invest in public health and economic recovery.

....and the "frugal four" fight back..... “frugal four” – Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and Finland – who argued that the issuance of a common debt instrument would punish the countries that had saved for such a rainy day, and encourage further fiscal mismanagement by those who did not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/co...tch-coronabond

....the crucial wording there for me is "further fiscal mismanagement".....you and I, Driller, have had numerous arguments over the years about Italian mismanagement of their economy, their huge black market economy and government corruption, and personally I'm glad the UK is out of the EU so we don't have to throw any more cash into their "black hole" ....but if numerous people are sceptical of the Chinese figures (under-reporting for political reasons), then I am quite within my rights to say that Italy are reporting every death as covid19 in order to gain "special treatment" once this is over, IMO.

We have both had a calm discussion over the Italian high death rate, ageing population, horrendous levels of Northern Italian air pollution, but not smoking levels (unless permanent lung damage had occurred years before quitting)
We started to disagree once the Guardian reported Italy running to the EU asking for "special coordinated support in fighting covid" but were told to sort out their own response (I'm paraphrasing, but here is the Guardian article) https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pidemic.....in my normal Tarquinesqe style I said the Italian NHS was garbage, when I should have said "woefully inadequate to cope"...I apologise

If the Brits can build a 4,000 bed facility in 5 days, then why can't the Italians do it? without having to keep running to the EU every time.....after all, they make some pretty decent motor cars!

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

'It is said' by whom? Tarquinbeech? Who else?

I very much doubt that any post-lockdown financial stimuli will be allocated based on the number of deaths, like taking your empties back to the bottle bank.

Also, the UK has two sets of figures to include/exclude deaths outside of hospitals.

This whole thing is just turning into the latest excuse for some classic NCM science contradiction/foreigner bashing.

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There are numerous sauces of information concerning how different countries manipulate figures to suit their own agenda, for the past, present or future and I'm not excluding the UK. But if you think I'm going to trawl through them all to suit you, you can either go look through previous posts, read the foreign press yourself, or go and boil your head. Besides, the British press has shown how they prefer sensationalism to factual reporting but there are more than the red top tabloids to source information.

Sorry for mentioning the French in my last post, I didn't know they were foreigners, classic NCM racist prejudice, eh?

Tarquin and Laxton, if you think countries with say 20,000 coronavirus deaths will automatically get more assistance from the EU than if they had 10,000 or 5000 deaths then I don't know what to say to you. That would be bizarre.

It will almost certainly be based on other factors, most probably economic factors, like the length of the shutdown and resilience (or lack of) in the economy.

Coronabonds are supported by Italy, France, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Slovenia and Luxembourg. Italy and Spain have the most deaths from the virus in the EU, some of the others have actually been quite effective in containing it.

What they all have in common is a longstanding desire to be able to borrow on the markets by selling all the Eurozone countries' debt together as single Eurobonds (now Coronabonds).