O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

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Originally Posted by macstop

Depends which science you believe UTM, will the players the management and the staff need a passport, just think we could be watching the un vaccinated play before our very eyes.

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You would imagine players and sportsmen in general are a bit more clued up about what's going on, for obvious reasons (well, obvious to some of us). Looks like we are heading for 4 jabs a year - which is basically 10 weeks 'protection' at a time, seeing that it's supposed to be 2 weeks to take effect. I'm seeing a lot of people who have had the first two saying "no more" and I watched a video clip yesterday of some official from one of the drug companies claiming it would need 3 additional jabs to protect from this current variant, by which time it's almost certain another one will have been identified as being worthy of having its own name. I don't see any end to this and I don't think anybody has any real concept of what the consequences will be.

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Originally Posted by macstop

Would it not be easier to put a star on those not vaccinated, i am sure someone tried this before?

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If you don't want to get vaccinated, I'd disagree (I'm happily vaccinated) with your decision, but I'd also say that in the end it's your body, your choice.

Because of that choice you might have to put up with some inconvenience, like not being able to watch the match or go to other kinds of gathering. I imagine that will be annnoying for you.

Comparing your situation to that of the Jews in Nazi Germany is however, absolutely mental.

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Originally Posted by jacobncfc

Develop a vaccine and give it to as many people as we can as quickly as possible. We’ve been pretty good at that, but everything else is just messing about around the edges, particularly at this point.

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Yep. But those who take UTMs position were anti- lockdown, are anti mask and are now anti vaccine. (Apologies if I’ve misrepresented your position Utm).

I’m not sure whether they would have accepted many more millions of excess deaths because they don’t find the use of the above measures palatable.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

If you don't want to get vaccinated, I'd disagree (I'm happily vaccinated) with your decision, but I'd also say that in the end it's your body, your choice.

Because of that choice you might have to put up with some inconvenience, like not being able to watch the match or go to other kinds of gathering. I imagine that will be annnoying for you.

Comparing your situation to that of the Jews in Nazi Germany is however, absolutely mental.

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Bear in mind Jews (my great grandfather being one) were not rounded up and thrown into concentration camps from day 1. It was a gradual step by step process which took place over the course of many years. There are people in the Jewish community who are seeing parallels. ditto those who escaped from communist countries and North Korea.

Slightly hysterical BFP. The vast majority of deaths are never good news, but to put a higher price on a covid death than all others is just wrong. We have to accept covid is here to stay and get on with life.
Pandemic mutations have always been less virulent in the past, so it seems with vaccines and herd immunity we just have to accept people will die stiil from covid, just like flu, cancer and the miriad of other things that cause humans to stop breathing. Sorry if this seems harsh but the alternative of endless lockdowns will be far worse.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Bear in mind Jews (my great grandfather being one) were not rounded up and thrown into concentration camps from day 1. It was a gradual step by step process which took place over the course of many years. There are people in the Jewish community who are seeing parallels. ditto those who escaped from communist countries and North Korea.

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As you know from our agreements on other topics, I'm open to heterodox thinking, but here, personally, I'd say there are hardly any parallels.

The only one I can see is the catch-all 'one group of people is being treated differently to another group of people' line of reasoning, which could be applied to an enormous number of situations.

I dare say there are also people in the Jewish community, and escapees from authoritarian regimes who are perfectly happy with the current public health policies, for whatever that is worth.

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Originally Posted by Magpies1959

Slightly hysterical BFP. The vast majority of deaths are never good news, but to put a higher price on a covid death than all others is just wrong. We have to accept covid is here to stay and get on with life.
Pandemic mutations have always been less virulent in the past, so it seems with vaccines and herd immunity we just have to accept people will die stiil from covid, just like flu, cancer and the miriad of other things that cause humans to stop breathing. Sorry if this seems harsh but the alternative of endless lockdowns will be far worse.

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I’m being hysterical when others have compared vaccinations with the holocaust? Ok.

No one has put a higher price on covid deaths than others. Obviously covid is here to stay, but that doesn’t mean we don’t try to mitigate its effects with vaccines and other measures, like we do with cancers and car accidents.

Also, no one has advocated for ‘endless lockdowns’. They will be required though if not enough people get themselves vaccinated. I would make anti vax misinformation a criminal offence.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

As you know from our agreements on other topics, I'm open to heterodox thinking, but here, personally, I'd say there are hardly any parallels.

The only one I can see is the catch-all 'one group of people is being treated differently to another group of people' line of reasoning, which could be applied to an enormous number of situations.

I dare say there are also people in the Jewish community, and escapees from authoritarian regimes who are perfectly happy with the current public health policies, for whatever that is worth.

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Yes, I wouldn't and didn't claim they *all* feel that way, but some do. Seeing what's happening in some other countries, I can see why people are making the connection. The world we've grown up in and taken for granted is not the default setting, something like Nazi Germany, the Chinese revolution or the Soviet Union will almost certainly happen again. If what we are seeing now is the very beginnings of the end for the free west - as we've known it - collapsing over the course of several decades to a century from now, then it won't just be unvaccinated people being blamed for whatever disasters unfold, the outcasts may not be unvaccinated or health pass related at all. but 2020-21 will likely be looked back upon as the turning point.
I won't be cheerleading it.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Bear in mind Jews (my great grandfather being one) were not rounded up and thrown into concentration camps from day 1. It was a gradual step by step process which took place over the course of many years. There are people in the Jewish community who are seeing parallels. ditto those who escaped from communist countries and North Korea.

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It’s the changes to the law, for example making various protest actions illegal, that are going through parliament now, unscrutinised and uncontested, that worry me.

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Originally Posted by applepie2

It’s the changes to the law, for example making various protest actions illegal, that are going through parliament now, unscrutinised and uncontested, that worry me.

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Yes the sight of Tory MPs waving through those draconian changes while whining at being told to wear a mask would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

As always with those people, they’re fine with attacking other’s rights but are quick to shout ‘oppression’ when they’re affected.