Increase the Minimum Wage

Long queues at airports ie five hours at most including Bristol and Leeds Bradford because they can’t get the staff. Bars/restaurants closed because people don’t want to/can’t afford to work for the minimum wage! In our town Cafe Nero for example has been closed two Saturday’s on the trot as again nobody wants to work on a low wage.

Some businesses now paying an extra £5 per hour over the minimum wage to get staff as the alternative is no staff and a loss of the days takings!

If you live in a town where it’s expensive to live ie Harrogate then people don’t need to work on the minimum wage or can’t afford to do so with huge rising costs. Employers can’t have their cake and eat it - pay the staff over the odds or have no staff and lose the days takings!

There are so many alternatives now for good money so many don’t need to work for pittance in a cafe or warehouse. Dog walkers now for example can earn hundreds each day and there’s still a huge shortage of them!

Dublin has been the same over here this weekend....disaster for many....and we have a bank holiday next weekend.....nothing has really recovered from the pandemic and now.....to get worse they are saying....

Whilst there are certainly still plenty of businesses that pay poor wages, a minimum wage is not the whole story. Too often any wage increases are fed back to the consumer rather than being absorbed by a company's profit margin. This then feeds back into the cost of living and contributes to the negation of such pay rises. Not all businesses have such healthy profit margins of course but many larger ones do but chose to protect the profits of their shareholders and large bonuses of their CEOs instead rather than eat into this to fund a higher wage bill.

Difficult as it is, it would be better if a fairer method could be found but we live in a capitalist society where money will always tend to go to money and there will always be those that garner their wealth through the exploitation of others as much as through their own hard work or abilities. It's a fine balancing act to both increase and develop businesses and boost the economy but still look after the poorer and vulnerable members of society. Just seems that the recent pandemic has brought to light just how skewed this balance between rich and poor in this country still is.

To paraphrase Jarvis: The Tory elite like Sunak probably believe that cream rises to the top but s hit also floats

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Originally Posted by Omegstrat6

Whilst there are certainly still plenty of businesses that pay poor wages, a minimum wage is not the whole story. Too often any wage increases are fed back to the consumer rather than being absorbed by a company's profit margin. This then feeds back into the cost of living and contributes to the negation of such pay rises. Not all businesses have such healthy profit margins of course but many larger ones do but chose to protect the profits of their shareholders and large bonuses of their CEOs instead rather than eat into this to fund a higher wage bill.

Difficult as it is, it would be better if a fairer method could be found but we live in a capitalist society where money will always tend to go to money and there will always be those that garner their wealth through the exploitation of others as much as through their own hard work or abilities. It's a fine balancing act to both increase and develop businesses and boost the economy but still look after the poorer and vulnerable members of society. Just seems that the recent pandemic has brought to light just how skewed this balance between rich and poor in this country still is.

To paraphrase Jarvis: The Tory elite like Sunak probably believe that cream rises to the top but s hit also floats

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I hear this stuff all the time from people who’ve never run a business.

Greedy owners keeping all the profits and passing on any wage rises to the paying public.

For many business, including my own, the logic you prescribe above seems so simple when in reality it isn’t.

I never pay minimum wage, I pay well above which is why I hardly ever lose staff but that’s not the point.

We have seen more than a 100% rise in many key items over the last 18 months do what do people like you expect me to do?

My average profit before taxation is around 10% to 11% of my total turnover once expenses are taken away.

Have you any concept of how easy it is to go from being profitable to being loss making in many industries?

I compete against Sports Direct and Amazon, there’s no possibility for me to profiteer.

As for wage rises.

Once you give a pay rise you’re stuck with it and when things get tough like they did through Covid winters then you have to potentially make people redundant, this is something I have never done in 25 years of running my own business.

I prefer to keep flexibility within my business and if we’re making okay profits at the mid point if the year and at Xmas I pay healthy bonuses to staff.

It’s too simplistic to make the argument the way that many like you do Omeg.

If you’re any kind of half decent human and boss like I think I am you can’t imagine how stressful it is having a dozen other people’s lives in your hands.

I was due a decent dividend this year on which I have to pay tax in four weeks time but the truth is I’ve only been able to extract a third of it due to how tight things are with all the various pressures at the moment.

So I’ve had to sell some property I own to raise enough to cover my tax bill.

Makes my piss boil when I hear simplistic, leftist type bo ll ocks being spouted about wages etc.

My lot will all get a bonus this summer even though I’m personally taking less than f u c k all at the moment and that’s because I feel for them.

I think your business ethics are to be admired Mick but alas the greedy CEOs of the big blue chips have made it hard to not smear every business person with the same brush.
There greed in taking dividends even when loss making has turned people against the bunch.
Small/medium size companies or family run business have always been more in tune with their employees current economic conditions.

Mega companies don't recognize individuals only their numbers.

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

I hear this stuff all the time from people who’ve never run a business.

Greedy owners keeping all the profits and passing on any wage rises to the paying public.

For many business, including my own, the logic you prescribe above seems so simple when in reality it isn’t.

I never pay minimum wage, I pay well above which is why I hardly ever lose staff but that’s not the point.

We have seen more than a 100% rise in many key items over the last 18 months do what do people like you expect me to do?

My average profit before taxation is around 10% to 11% of my total turnover once expenses are taken away.

Have you any concept of how easy it is to go from being profitable to being loss making in many industries?

I compete against Sports Direct and Amazon, there’s no possibility for me to profiteer.

As for wage rises.

Once you give a pay rise you’re stuck with it and when things get tough like they did through Covid winters then you have to potentially make people redundant, this is something I have never done in 25 years of running my own business.

I prefer to keep flexibility within my business and if we’re making okay profits at the mid point if the year and at Xmas I pay healthy bonuses to staff.

It’s too simplistic to make the argument the way that many like you do Omeg.

If you’re any kind of half decent human and boss like I think I am you can’t imagine how stressful it is having a dozen other people’s lives in your hands.

I was due a decent dividend this year on which I have to pay tax in four weeks time but the truth is I’ve only been able to extract a third of it due to how tight things are with all the various pressures at the moment.

So I’ve had to sell some property I own to raise enough to cover my tax bill.

Makes my piss boil when I hear simplistic, leftist type bo ll ocks being spouted about wages etc.

My lot will all get a bonus this summer even though I’m personally taking less than f u c k all at the moment and that’s because I feel for them.

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100% agree and totally see where you are coming from. I predict thousands of businesses will go bust in January 2023. Why? Because supplier costs will keep increasing as well as business energy bills then businesses will reap in the Christmas trade and then pull the plug! It’s such a shame but businesses can’t operate losing money.

Those businesses that pay more than the minimum wage will ensure they get the staff. On the minimum wage there’s no such thing as loyalty as if someone offers say £5 per more hour the staff will switch. You can’t blame the staff!

More and more larger corporate companies now when staff get another job elsewhere are offering to match that salary to keep those staff. You are seeing this now more than ever.

You can’t blame individual people with their own rising bills - they will go where the money is as loyalty rarely comes into it.

Unfortunately shop costs will keep rising due to their own costs going up and shop lifting will hugely increase too. People do have to feed their kids which was why it was stupid for Sunak to give £400 to those that didn’t need it and could have increased benefits to those that do!

I hope all these illegal immigrants are made to work to earn their stay in the country and benefits they receive. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Even if it’s community work!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

I hear this stuff all the time from people who’ve never run a business.

Greedy owners keeping all the profits and passing on any wage rises to the paying public.

For many business, including my own, the logic you prescribe above seems so simple when in reality it isn’t.

I never pay minimum wage, I pay well above which is why I hardly ever lose staff but that’s not the point.

We have seen more than a 100% rise in many key items over the last 18 months do what do people like you expect me to do?

My average profit before taxation is around 10% to 11% of my total turnover once expenses are taken away.

Have you any concept of how easy it is to go from being profitable to being loss making in many industries?

I compete against Sports Direct and Amazon, there’s no possibility for me to profiteer.

As for wage rises.

Once you give a pay rise you’re stuck with it and when things get tough like they did through Covid winters then you have to potentially make people redundant, this is something I have never done in 25 years of running my own business.

I prefer to keep flexibility within my business and if we’re making okay profits at the mid point if the year and at Xmas I pay healthy bonuses to staff.

It’s too simplistic to make the argument the way that many like you do Omeg.

If you’re any kind of half decent human and boss like I think I am you can’t imagine how stressful it is having a dozen other people’s lives in your hands.

I was due a decent dividend this year on which I have to pay tax in four weeks time but the truth is I’ve only been able to extract a third of it due to how tight things are with all the various pressures at the moment.

So I’ve had to sell some property I own to raise enough to cover my tax bill.

Makes my piss boil when I hear simplistic, leftist type bo ll ocks being spouted about wages etc.

My lot will all get a bonus this summer even though I’m personally taking less than f u c k all at the moment and that’s because I feel for them.

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I take in everything you say Mick and do honestly appreciate how hard it is for the majority of businesses at the moment many of which are struggling to survive. I am certainly not "anti-business" as healthy businesses are key to a healthy economy. I was just saying that far too many business owners do not share your own laudable ethics and a few bigger ones still make vast profits yet pay comparatively poor wages in relation to this. There is no simple solution to this-just wish there were! Meant no offence to yourself or the many other businesses like your own.

I don't think the solution is as easy as just to increase the minimum wage. I saw some in Labour a while ago asking for £15 per hour minimum wage, and their fiscal understanding genuinely scares me.

There is no quick fix to this, but the overwhelming answer is to proactively support and invest in business in the UK. This Government is severely lacking and have only done the opposite to this.

Growth has to improve, right now it is much slower than the US, France, Germany who are all ahead of us in this regard. If business productivity and growth improves then we can control inflation and interest rates better. And despite Brexit being a blocker, which has undoubtedly damaged business interests in this country. We're unlikely to be able to change that now for maybe a generation. So in the meantime, we need to invest in new industry sectors, so that our children and grandchildren have high skilled and well paid jobs available when they enter the workplace.

However, when you have a PM who when asked about the disruption Brexit would cause said F*** business, then what hope do you have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WBA123

I don't think the solution is as easy as just to increase the minimum wage. I saw some in Labour a while ago asking for £15 per hour minimum wage, and their fiscal understanding genuinely scares me.

There is no quick fix to this, but the overwhelming answer is to proactively support and invest in business in the UK. This Government is severely lacking and have only done the opposite to this.

Growth has to improve, right now it is much slower than the US, France, Germany who are all ahead of us in this regard. If business productivity and growth improves then we can control inflation and interest rates better. And despite Brexit being a blocker, which has undoubtedly damaged business interests in this country. We're unlikely to be able to change that now for maybe a generation. So in the meantime, we need to invest in new industry sectors, so that our children and grandchildren have high skilled and well paid jobs available when they enter the workplace.

However, when you have a PM who when asked about the disruption Brexit would cause said F*** business, then what hope do you have.

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"Growth has to improve, right now it is much slower than the US, France, Germany who are all ahead of us in this regard"

er not true. UK had the highest growth rate of ANY G7 nation in the last 12 months (about double that of France and Germany.) Source OECD

In an ideal world it would be a "liveable" wage rather than a "minimum" one. The worth of any wage is only meaningful in terms of what it can buy. Surely, anyone who works full time in this day and age should have enough money to be able to feed/clothe/house themselves and family. A higher minimum wage will not, in itself, achieve this and brings its own problems such as some businesses clearly not being able to afford to raise their wages or others passing the cost on to consumers which feeds into higher cost of living. A higher minimum wage will also then not necessarily mean that fewer people rely on state benefits to top up their finances either.

The government needs to help businesses more just as it needs to better support the poorer and more vulnerable. There are no easy answers or quick fixes but their seeming reluctance still to deal with taxation issues with mega companies like Amazon is a concern. Surely there is potential there to get more revenue for the public purse? The main problem to me is still the vast uneven-ness in the distribution of wealth in this country and also the continued inequality in investment opportunities across the country. The current government don't seem to have either the will or answers to this but, as you say, few would trust Labour either. Can't see much changing sadly.