This time it's, so far, 2 dead (plus the attacker) and 3 injured. Car driven into Jews at a synagogue. Driver got out and then attacked those he'd run over, with a knife. The attacker was shot dead by police.
No coincidence that it's Yom Kippur.
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This time it's, so far, 2 dead (plus the attacker) and 3 injured. Car driven into Jews at a synagogue. Driver got out and then attacked those he'd run over, with a knife. The attacker was shot dead by police.
No coincidence that it's Yom Kippur.
Awful and shocking.
God help the first person to suggest that it could be a pro Palestine assailant on social media. Starmer's paw patrol will have them banged up pronto.
Still at least the **** is dead before detonating anything (if the bomb vest suggestion is true) and causing more misery. Response team seem to have done a good job.
Well it would seem, by implication, to be you and I’m guessing nothing has, or will, happen to you. I’ll even be the second if you like, because there’s nothing like stating the bleedin’ obvious as far as this being a pro Palestinian and anti Jewish hate crime is there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone
The point surely is that it’s yet another tragedy involving, in all probability, innocent victims and fundamentalism…on both sides.
Labour/Starmer aren’t going to have anyone ‘banged up’ for saying such things, so let’s cut out this particular political point scoring and just mourn the ongoing situation while, as you more sensibly suggest, applauding those who prevented a greater tragedy.
What does ?on both sides? mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Assuming you’re requesting a proper answer and won’t be satisfied with me running off saying ‘do your own research’, it means exactly what it suggests i.e. the vast majority of people, be they Jews, Muslims, whatever are moderate and follow their religions (extravagant fairy tales imo) in a passive way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
Unfortunately what has happened over the last (almost exactly) two years in Israel/Gaza has fuelled the hatred that already existed between the two groups.
Who started it and even when it started has almost become irrelevant. The fact is that if you’re Jewish and know of friends or relatives etc who were murdered or taken hostage on that terrible day in 2023 you’re going to feel hatred towards those responsible and if you’re a Palestinian who has been or knows of those who have been horribly mistreated by the Jewish establishment/armed forces either before or since 7/10/23 then equally you’re going to feel massive resentment.
What I imagine we saw in Manchester yesterday was a crazed individual (terrorist) acting out what he (wrongly) saw as his revenge against the nearest Jewish community, but with the mention of terrorism, personally I find it difficult to distinguish some of the actions by Israeli troops against children in Gaza as anything other than terrorism, albeit state sanctioned.
So religion again. Fundamentalist on the part of yesterday’s perpetrator and on the part of the Israeli hierarchy seems to me to be the cause and the innocent seem to me again to be the victims. Where and how it eventually ends is the question.
So the police and the home secretary have asked that the pro Palestine Action protests in London tomorrow be psotponed for a week to ensure the event can be properly policed and as an act of respect for the victims in Manchester. This would appear to have been rejected and the protests go ahead at time of writing. Quite extraordinarily callous.
It would be a huge shame if a car were to drive into the protestors who may be without a full police escort due to higher prioritiesthat they need to resource but, as they say, you cant fix stupid.
Six months ago I was on balance pro palestine. The continued protests here caused me to develop Palestine fatigue and feel more in the "I dont give a ****, they deserve each other" camp. After yesterday (although Ive yet to see any evidence that this attack was directly linked) my feeling is more akin to ban all protests as inflammatory, anti semitic and encouraging attacka such as we have seen. Pull the flags down as they symbolise hatred. yesterday has lost Palestine an ally - OK its just me but there surely must be many more individuals who are now heartily sick of the whole protest movement here which (if it is linked) have resulted in the mindless death of 3 british citizens - yes I include the assailant in that number as I'm assuming he has been radicalised along the way..
I agree with most of that, not even arguing against your rejection of religion. What I (and millions) would counter is you?re not comparing like with like. The Israel / Hamas conflict is an overseas event, Yesterday?s atrocity is a reflection of a very one-sided picture in the UK - put it another way, when did a Jew last carry out such an act on British soil? GPs point about ?fatigue? is a good one, it?s not just GP that?s seeing beyond the flags to the extremism of lack of respect for the dead etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Which is all well and good, not exactly how I see it but you’d expect that and I can see the point you and Rog are now making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
On the other hand that isn’t what my original reply was referencing…i.e. no sooner had the incident been reported than GP had jumped on the anti-Starmer bandwagon claiming that anyone suggesting any possible anti-Palestinian line could expect to be ‘banged up’ by Starmer’s thought police.
That was nonsense. As you say it is an ‘overseas event’ which Starmer has no control over. The man has a Jewish wife FGS. What happens in Israel/Gaza he is not responsible for. The actions of one man, or perhaps a group of four people, in Manchester yesterday he has little control over other than, perhaps, to try and ensure that the security services were well equipped enough to act as competently as they seemingly did.
P.S. I don’t ‘reject religion’. Just wish they’d all stop fighting about it. I respect religion and its allegorical power. I also believe in each to their own and think it’s a pity those more committed to individual religions don’t appear to feel the same.
I won?t speak for GP but that kind of response is a reflection IMO of some of the dafter/more sinister (depending on your pov) activities of HM Constabulary lately (and I don?t mean Lucy Collins) which has started to look suspiciously like 1984 come to life. Any association with Starmer is, IMO again, a reflection of the fact that he?s /his govt is thoroughly disliked (whatever the reason, 22 mill black hole, 14 years of incompetence blah blah). I go back to the point though that in UK, which is most people?s focus, we don?t see many Jewish acts of terrorQuote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Clarification re religion understood, but with respect to your opinion, using a heavy metal analogy, you are up in row Z seated not down in the mosh pit and it?s a whole different story down there