Trump and Venezuela

So, having partially won support from the MAGA crowd with his rhetoric about America First and promising an isolationist stance of not getting them involved in foreign wars, the US has ramped up its operations and launched a heavy attack on Venezuela with Trump boasting that they have captured its president with more to come in a statement later.

I'm not doubting the allegations of corruption or of degrees of complicity in either drug trafficking or shady oil deals by the ruling regime in Venezuela but this is surely far more about Trump exaggerating such claims in order to justify his actions because he wants a regime change in the country more friendly to himself so that he can get his hands on their oil and gold. Naturally, he will sell this to his supporters as all benefiting US interests but you can bet anything that the grifter in chief will make sure he gets his own grubby little hands in on any deals.

If there is any truth at all in talk of a New World Order, it seems to now mean that Trump will forget Europe and elsewhere and primarily concentrate on his allowed sphere of influence which will be those countries closer at hand - those of South America and Greenland for example. Whether he ditches Taiwan and allows China their wishes there (as he has so far enabled Putin over Ukraine) remains to be seen.

This is all out of the play book. Cant beat the enemy, take out their allies.

Leadership in Iran is falling and Venezuela will hold elections to bring in a pro western leader.

I think this was on the negotiation list with Putin.

Meanwhile Starmer at home is doing zero whilst thousands of illegals pile into the country whilst Lammy throws compensation at terrorists for human rights. What a complete and utter shambles our country has become. No wonder the support for Farage is huge and growing.

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Originally Posted by baggieal

Meanwhile Starmer at home is doing zero whilst thousands of illegals pile into the country whilst Lammy throws compensation at terrorists for human rights. What a complete and utter shambles our country has become. No wonder the support for Farage is huge and growing.

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This thread was about Trump and Venezuela and somehow you decided to throw Starmer and Immigration in 😄. We have bigger (and i mean bigger) problems here in the UK and immigration hardly comes close to it - its a problem yes, but it’s also a distraction. Our politicians, and all overseas are not keen on helping us folk out in any shape or form.. neither will Reform, really not sure how some are falling for this con. The party is basically ex Tory.

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Originally Posted by regis80

This thread was about Trump and Venezuela and somehow you decided to throw Starmer and Immigration in 😄. We have bigger (and i mean bigger) problems here in the UK and immigration hardly comes close to it - it?s a problem yes, but it’s also a distraction. Our politicians, and all overseas are not keen on helping us folk out in any shape or form.. neither will Reform, really not sure how some are falling for this con. The party is basically ex Tory.

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Back on track and a big criticism of Trump - he didn?t bomb Iran enough to completely take out all their defence and nuclear capabilities. For sure they will keep enriching and arming their evil proxies like Hamas who should also be eradicated to the end. As for Venezuela - it?s always been known to supply narcotics along with Mexico so if it?s a threat - then you eliminate it at source.

The only thing our Keir can eliminate is the two child benefit to throw more cash at those who will be mainly on benefits anyway 😭

No one can deny that the Venezuelan president is corrupt, involved with criminal activities, anti-democratic, and posed a genuine threat to the freedoms of many of his people but this POTUS has just launched an attack on a sovereign state and kidnapped its president without even bothering to run it past Congress first and ignoring international law. Exactly what message does this send to Putin about Ukraine or Xi Jinping about Taiwan?

Trump has greatly exaggerated the impact of drug running by Venezuelans on the US simply because he wants to try and justify a regime change and he wants access to the country's oil. End of. Now he is talking about renaming the Monroe doctrine after himself (of course he is) and making semi-serious threats against other South American countries, Mexico and the Caribbean and talking about taking over Canada and Greenland again. He may be half joking about the last two but we all know he would seize the opportunity if he could. Why? Because they are all part of the Western hemisphere which is the US's region of influence under this doctrine. Trump doesn't care if they are allies or not, he just dreams of being remembered as The great US President who Made America Great Again. Not too dis-similar to Putin who dreams of being remembered for taking back the lands that were once part of the Soviet Union and making Russia great again or Xi Jinping who wants to take back Taiwan as part of China.

US intervention abroad in terms of regime change and "nation building" has never gone well, whether in Haiti, Iraq or Afghanistan. Eventually, they have pulled out and left chaos, division and suffering. Those who should know are all saying that Venezuela will be no different. Trump talks of "running the country" but there is very little detail as to how. It doesn't matter, this isn't isolationism, it is imperialism.

Europe-including the UK- better wake up sharpish because it cannot depend on Trump and the sooner both economic and military ties are strengthened to create a more United front to deal with the threat from Russia and the New World Order taking shape , the better. Kimmel may well be right, and Americans may wake up in time and throw the Orange One out but waiting or hoping for this isn't an option.

I do understand that we have a raft of our own domestic problems to sort out but what Trump is doing-just as what Putin is doing-does matter because it will affect us and we ignore it at our peril.

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Originally Posted by Omegstrat6

No one can deny that the Venezuelan president is corrupt, involved with criminal activities, anti-democratic, and posed a genuine threat to the freedoms of many of his people but this POTUS has just launched an attack on a sovereign state and kidnapped its president without even bothering to run it past Congress first and ignoring international law. Exactly what message does this send to Putin about Ukraine or Xi Jinping about Taiwan

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This is what living in a changing new world order feels and looks like. We have had 80 years of pretty stable conditions but that began to change ten years ago.
I think it is about to become very unstable shortly.

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Originally Posted by Omegstrat6

No one can deny that the Venezuelan president is corrupt, involved with criminal activities, anti-democratic, and posed a genuine threat to the freedoms of many of his people but this POTUS has just launched an attack on a sovereign state and kidnapped its president without even bothering to run it past Congress first and ignoring international law. Exactly what message does this send to Putin about Ukraine or Xi Jinping about Taiwan?

Trump has greatly exaggerated the impact of drug running by Venezuelans on the US simply because he wants to try and justify a regime change and he wants access to the country's oil. End of. Now he is talking about renaming the Monroe doctrine after himself (of course he is) and making semi-serious threats against other South American countries, Mexico and the Caribbean and talking about taking over Canada and Greenland again. He may be half joking about the last two but we all know he would seize the opportunity if he could. Why? Because they are all part of the Western hemisphere which is the US's region of influence under this doctrine. Trump doesn't care if they are allies or not, he just dreams of being remembered as The great US President who Made America Great Again. Not too dis-similar to Putin who dreams of being remembered for taking back the lands that were once part of the Soviet Union and making Russia great again or Xi Jinping who wants to take back Taiwan as part of China.

US intervention abroad in terms of regime change and "nation building" has never gone well, whether in Haiti, Iraq or Afghanistan. Eventually, they have pulled out and left chaos, division and suffering. Those who should know are all saying that Venezuela will be no different. Trump talks of "running the country" but there is very little detail as to how. It doesn't matter, this isn't isolationism, it is imperialism.

Europe-including the UK- better wake up sharpish because it cannot depend on Trump and the sooner both economic and military ties are strengthened to create a more United front to deal with the threat from Russia and the New World Order taking shape , the better. Kimmel may well be right, and Americans may wake up in time and throw the Orange One out but waiting or hoping for this isn't an option.

I do understand that we have a raft of our own domestic problems to sort out but what Trump is doing-just as what Putin is doing-does matter because it will affect us and we ignore it at our peril.

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Well said Omeg. It’s why we should have closer ties with Europe and as a continent get Greenland more integrated. We also need to have lesser reliance on countries that can instantly cause instability in our own economic region. Whoever thinks this is about drug offence needs to wake up. I couldn’t care less about Venezuela, it’s down to their own people to fight for their future, nobody else.

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Originally Posted by Omegstrat6

No one can deny that the Venezuelan president is corrupt, involved with criminal activities, anti-democratic, and posed a genuine threat to the freedoms of many of his people but this POTUS has just launched an attack on a sovereign state and kidnapped its president without even bothering to run it past Congress first and ignoring international law. Exactly what message does this send to Putin about Ukraine or Xi Jinping about Taiwan?

Trump has greatly exaggerated the impact of drug running by Venezuelans on the US simply because he wants to try and justify a regime change and he wants access to the country's oil. End of. Now he is talking about renaming the Monroe doctrine after himself (of course he is) and making semi-serious threats against other South American countries, Mexico and the Caribbean and talking about taking over Canada and Greenland again. He may be half joking about the last two but we all know he would seize the opportunity if he could. Why? Because they are all part of the Western hemisphere which is the US's region of influence under this doctrine. Trump doesn't care if they are allies or not, he just dreams of being remembered as The great US President who Made America Great Again. Not too dis-similar to Putin who dreams of being remembered for taking back the lands that were once part of the Soviet Union and making Russia great again or Xi Jinping who wants to take back Taiwan as part of China.

US intervention abroad in terms of regime change and "nation building" has never gone well, whether in Haiti, Iraq or Afghanistan. Eventually, they have pulled out and left chaos, division and suffering. Those who should know are all saying that Venezuela will be no different. Trump talks of "running the country" but there is very little detail as to how. It doesn't matter, this isn't isolationism, it is imperialism.

Europe-including the UK- better wake up sharpish because it cannot depend on Trump and the sooner both economic and military ties are strengthened to create a more United front to deal with the threat from Russia and the New World Order taking shape , the better. Kimmel may well be right, and Americans may wake up in time and throw the Orange One out but waiting or hoping for this isn't an option.

I do understand that we have a raft of our own domestic problems to sort out but what Trump is doing-just as what Putin is doing-does matter because it will affect us and we ignore it at our peril.

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I was somewhat reluctant to join in with this thread as it is apparent, at least in some cases that if one does not tow the populist line of some you are made to look like you are troublesome. Surely we should look at the wider picture and take a more balanced and different approach if we choose. As is often said on this forum we are all permitted an opinion, but like Trump, Putin, Xi Jinping and co if you have a different view one may be selected and punished for not toeing the line. That is how they, the likes of the above stay in charge, by the use of power and fear. Having a power is a wonderful thing, using it without prejudice and for the right reasons is another thing.

Much of you what you post above Omeg is what I have referred too in previous posts regarding Trump and others such as Putin and Xi Jiping. Bit you do put it more eloquently than me. What we are seeing in the UK with regards to Starmer, pales into insignificance when you look at the situation globally.

Trump was a menace in waiting. Support for him was strong and he got back in the Whitehouse due to his lies. He returned to power by fooling the American electorate, and many onlookers too. He has lied and lied and now we see the real Trump. He will throw Europe, Canada and many other countries under the bus for his own wealth and importance.

It is absolutely clear that Trump is equally as dangerous as Putin and Xi Jiping. Obviously some did not see this including much of the US electorate were too short sighted to do so.

As you indicate Omeg, Europe needs to give its head a wobble, as does many other nations. They need to wake up and face the fact that, as it stands, Trump is a bad apple (orange would be more appropriate) in the barrel. He has unbalanced the world order and it is perhaps now clear why he had no wish to assist Ukraine.

It was said Biden did less than Trump when it came to Ukraine. Well the fact is that was an incorrect and was not ever the case.

Trump is looking at taking Columbia, Mexico and Cuba and he has mentioned Canada and Greenland. I do not think for one moment he is joking. There is a very real danger of him carrying out his threat. Who the hell could realistically stop him.

It is becoming clear, if it had not been clear before, why Trump indicated the US might review its membership of NATO. The reality is we could end up with a situation where one NATO country invades another.

Putin must be rubbing his hands in glee at the prospect of further US invasions based on Trumps ideology. International law has been radically weakened and there is no denying that.

Thanks to Trump and his now adversary and their want for wealth and notoriety the world is standing at a precipice.

As I said in my first paragraph, having a power is a wonderful thing, using it without prejudice and for the right reasons is another thing.

Many are slating Trump but his popularity is still around 40% in the USA where Starmer is around 17/20%. What does this say?

For me I would rather we get our own country sorted which is a huge mess at the moment before we meddle into foreign affairs. As some have indicated Trump is not interested in Europe but to be honest why should he! If I was Trump I would contribute to the average percentage of GDP to Ukraine of NATO as opposed to the highest percentage along with Poland for ammo and financial assistance. It?s tax payers cash in the USA. Some NATO countries don?t even contribute a cent! How can that be!

Surely it?s up to Europe to raise their game and grow a pair and not be reliant on the USA who have their own interests and tax payers to answer to!