O/T:- Covid Trump

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

There is a grain of truth to the fact that Antifa (or groups inspired by that ideology, for those people who think Antifa doesn't exist) get something of a free pass from large parts of the media.

Obviously I'm not equating them to right wing militias, who I think I'm right in saying even before this kidnap plot were considered as dangerous as Islamic terror cells by the FBI, but they do regularly engage in unpleasant behaviour which is either not reported or explained away. Trump takes this grain of truth and exaggerates it, distorts it, and makes false equivalences from it. Trump is in my opinion a bad man acting in bad faith, but I think the current media climate enables him to do that to a certain degree.

These right-wing types have always had a fascination with Fred Perry shirts, which is strange considering he was apparently very much against that sort of thing. I remember travelling around Europe when I was younger while wearing my Fred Perry polo shirt and sporting very short hair, and a bunch of skinheads coming over to me to shake my hand. I was young and naive at the time so it took me a while to figure it out!

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Trump is clever enough to give his supporters something to latch on to that does include a grain of truth. That said, someone was talking about how dangerous the far left were on here a while ago. I remember looking the figures up and posting them and I think the far right had killed 150+ people in the US in recent years against 0 from the far left. Apologies in advance if the figures aren't quite correct but they were someing like that.

It's clear where the most danger lies, but agree that extremism on either side is unacceptable, but unpleasant is less bad than murderous of course. Still, that doesn't fit the orange one's agenda,so throwing out the odd crumb of truth in amongst spreading fear, division and hatred worked well for Trump last time. Who knows what'll happen this time.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

Only slightly related to the topic on hand but some people might enjoy this interview with journalist Matt Taibbi about the evolution of the news media and polarisation.

https://youtu.be/mG1qJeDI9Ok

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Joe Rogan did a very interesting podcast with Matt

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

Only slightly related to the topic on hand but some people might enjoy this interview with journalist Matt Taibbi about the evolution of the news media and polarisation.

https://youtu.be/mG1qJeDI9Ok

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That's interesting viewing, no idea if he's on it.

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Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse

... forgive me if others have spotted this. If ever you felt conned about CV 19 then this is a must watch. Patience required - it's 49 minutes and
if ever you understood F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real), then this is it - https://youtu.be/o98UoxP53T0

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This one is a short and straightforward read from The Lancet.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...153-X/fulltext

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Originally Posted by Mapperleypie

This one is a short and straightforward read from The Lancet.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...153-X/fulltext

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I’ve noticed that the Covid, lockdown, and mask wearing deniers never, ever link to an actual medical journal.

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Originally Posted by BigFatPie

I’ve noticed that the Covid, lockdown, and mask wearing deniers never, ever link to an actual medical journal.

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'We've had enough of experts' appears to be the general theme.

The level of disinformation I see being passed off as 'FACTS' on social media is frightening.

... thanks for your input Mapps. However, the Lancet article is simply a repeat of all/most of that which we know. Calling for immediate/rapid action - tell me something new! We'd all like that. Also, including NZ in their example of good practice is a bit of a joke; small, less complex population issues. Japan and Vietnam accepted. Also, on 5 Live this morning, an interesting call from an English chap living in Poland; who explained that when their (unpopular) government instructs something to be done the population accept and obey. Try that in the UK! We, as a population, get everything we deserve. The UK is an ill-disciplined, unruly, mongrel, divided nation; so no chance of common action here.
A short version of the ReinerFuellmich (49min) item is that, faced with a questionable verdict that we have to deal with a pandemic, the pharma industry has lobbied like fury to make hay while the money flow can be milked. Governments have fallen for their spiel and poured billions in for an apparent solution. (Call me again in a year or two to discuss whether we are still looking for a vaccine!). The whole situation looks to me very much like the American solution to the Iraq war recovery - we'll pour billions into your country to rebuild it after we bombed you to bits - but by the way, all the money will pass through American companies and we'll do it our way, not yours. So we have ineffective solutions by ineffective organisations screwing governments (sorry, you and me) for all they can. It stinks.

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Originally Posted by cher1

Trump is clever enough to give his supporters something to latch on to that does include a grain of truth. That said, someone was talking about how dangerous the far left were on here a while ago. I remember looking the figures up and posting them and I think the far right had killed 150+ people in the US in recent years against 0 from the far left. Apologies in advance if the figures aren't quite correct but they were someing like that.

It's clear where the most danger lies, but agree that extremism on either side is unacceptable, but unpleasant is less bad than murderous of course. Still, that doesn't fit the orange one's agenda,so throwing out the odd crumb of truth in amongst spreading fear, division and hatred worked well for Trump last time. Who knows what'll happen this time.

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I'm a bit sceptical of the 0, especially in light of recent events, but I can well believe there's a huge gap and agree with you that one is clearly more dangerous then the other. Right wing terrorists have been responsible for large scale bomb attacks, among other things, while Antifa et al go for street level beatings and intimidation.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that while I agree with you about Trump being extremely dangerous and a man who ideally would be nowhere near public office, we are where we are and I think that's a sign of a deeply polarised, unhealthy society.

In a healthy society the outcome of the next election wouldn't be in doubt and the Trump's opponent would win by a landslide. If Biden wins I really hope they don't consider it 'danger averted' (to quote Colin Slater) and carry on with business as usual, because I think the US public have been trying to radically change things for a while now.

First they chose the nice-guy radical, Obama, who for various reasons (2008 crash in particular) didn't change as much as he promised, then they chose the showman radical, who in my opinion is too self-interested to change anything, and to be honest I'm very worried about who they might choose in 5-10 years.

Agree with all of that Driller. The figures were from before the recent unrest following George Floyd's death, so yes the 0 may well have increased now. I think the Oklahoma bombing figures weren't included iirc.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

I'm a bit sceptical of the 0, especially in light of recent events, but I can well believe there's a huge gap and agree with you that one is clearly more dangerous then the other. Right wing terrorists have been responsible for large scale bomb attacks, among other things, while Antifa et al go for street level beatings and intimidation.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that while I agree with you about Trump being extremely dangerous and a man who ideally would be nowhere near public office, we are where we are and I think that's a sign of a deeply polarised, unhealthy society.

In a healthy society the outcome of the next election wouldn't be in doubt and the Trump's opponent would win by a landslide. If Biden wins I really hope they don't consider it 'danger averted' (to quote Colin Slater) and carry on with business as usual, because I think the US public have been trying to radically change things for a while now.

First they chose the nice-guy radical, Obama, who for various reasons (2008 crash in particular) didn't change as much as he promised, then they chose the showman radical, who in my opinion is too self-interested to change anything, and to be honest I'm very worried about who they might choose in 5-10 years.

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Ted Cruz - No problem.