O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

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Originally Posted by Ram59

It was a law Mista, you have to give people a chance to comply, but I agree that its crazy that shop workers are exempt, unless they're working behind a screen.

The argument, not yours, that its impossible to police really annoys me. Who polices serving booze, fags, knives and glue to underage shoppers? Have you ever tried buying more than 2 small packs of paracetamol?

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It’s not an argument Ram, it appears to just be a fact. I’m not sure why the public adherence to mask wearing is less than, say, seat belt wearing or indoor fag smoking, but someone with power needs to work out why and sort it IMO

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Originally Posted by Ram59

It was a law Mista, you have to give people a chance to comply, but I agree that its crazy that shop workers are exempt, unless they're working behind a screen.

The argument, not yours, that its impossible to police really annoys me. Who polices serving booze, fags, knives and glue to underage shoppers? Have you ever tried buying more than 2 small packs of paracetamol?

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If you refuse a pack of fags, the customer moans and walks off. If you say I'm not serving you without a mask, the customer gets in your face, coughs, spits... Putting the retail worker at a very real and potentially fatal risk.

Perhaps, rather than complaining that the little lady behind the til isn't enforcing the rules, you should stand up and police it yourself?

#retaillivesmatter

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Of course not, and I agree with your comments about going abroad...but why do we suddenly announce these things at 10.00 pm in the evening and seemingly give people thirty hours (I think) to get home which just - judging from the TV pictures - leads to horribly overcrowded
ferries etc.
One ‘expert’ (non-government) yesterday was actually telling people that they could manage the drive from Southern Europe in that time but weren’t allowed to stop for fuel/toilets/refreshments. Helpful that.

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In reality quarantines are ineffective, might ahve been useful from mid Feb when it was clear Italy, China etc had high levels of infection but now? They are just a lame government trying to appear on the ball, but actually its window dressing. The virus is circulating in evry country, however hospital admissions are down, the excess death rate is below normal.

An efficient track and trace system is whats required and this could be applied across europe to specific countries, but of course that would involve cooperating and working with the EU and politically thats unacceptable to the Brexit zealots.

The vast majority appear to be continuing their holiday and deciding what to do when they return, I suspect many will ignore the quarantine requirements should they still be in force on their return.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Why would I ‘explode’, Ram? You and GP have become very fond of suggesting what ‘RA’ - and Swale or mista - will do/think etc but it’s invariably unfounded.

Do I think/have I ever suggested that teachers and head teachers are beyond reproach? Of course not. There are good and bad in all walks - and professions - of life. Simple as that and teachers are no exception.
I know of at least one teacher who has made the most of the opportunity provided for non attendance. On the other hand I also know that my daughter worked in school every single day of the last half term and that the two schools my wife and I worked in prior to retirement have remained open throughout the pandemic...even providing a ‘social service’ through the Easter holidays.

I don’t doubt for a moment that ‘opportunist heads’, as described by GP, exist and I share his contempt for them, however have most
teachers let down their students? I don’t think so.

I spent most of my career working with 14-16 year olds so I have to go back almost half a century to remember A levels. They were always, as with most exams, something of a lottery and that seems to be being replicated, albeit in another form, this year.

Much more important though than the ‘distraction’ of A level results is what will be happening in September. It will not be the fault of teachers if parents do not feel sufficiently confident in the physical ability of schools to follow social distancing rules.

The government, in the form of Gavin Williamson - aka Frank Spencer - has known about the problem for months but simply not tackled it. They love to take the credit for ‘building’ new hospitals so quickly back in March and April but in fact they did no such thing. They requisitioned certain buildings and equipped them as, largely and thankfully unused, hospitals.
Such action was worthy of praise but why haven’t they taken similar steps with schools?
Time after time we hear the mantra that all pupils will return to school as normal in September and hang wringing Frank tells us there’ll be fines for parents who don’t conform to this ‘moral responsibility’.

It won’t work...teachers, pupils and, above all, parents have justifiable concerns. You cannot safely fit a full class of pupils into a classroom with dimensions that defy all other ‘new normal’ rules regarding social distancing. Steps such as the acquisition of alternative/temporary buildings and the ’upskilling’ of teaching assistants should already be in place but unfortunately we have a Prime Minister and an Education Secretary who haven’t a clue and nothing has been done.

What I suspect you’ll see very soon is pupils on part time (50% at best) timetables and a great deal of online teaching for those with the equipment, parental support/capability, and motivation to make the most of it.

Ultimately the current A level fiasco will, I suspect, make little difference. What happens in all areas of schooling from September onwards will...but I don’t think you can blame teachers for the abject lack of planning.

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Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

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Not particularly pro- or anti- govt, I've been checking out the BBC website, pretty informative and looks at stuff from a lot of angles. Sorry if y'all already check this out https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

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I agree with you about how unacceptable it would be for children to be ‘roaming the streets not socially distancing’ and I haven’t actually mentioned ‘vulnerable teachers’...they should simply be confined to online provision...end of.

You’re also right that medics, retail - in the area of food/supermarkets anyway - and transport staff have been very much in the front line.

Having said that...my health centre waiting room remains out of action, I understand that many GP appointments are being carried out via the telephone, clothes shops don’t allow the fitting rooms to be used and even supermarkets - where staff, imo, deserve just as much of a clap as those in the NHS - are employing some sort of equation involving square footage of the store and the number of people allowed in at any one time.

Schools are, in all other situations, a known hotbed of viral transmission and even if, in general, younger people do not suffer such a potentially serious version of the virus they still have the capacity to take it home and trigger a new spike/second wave.

Obviously having a daughter who works in a primary school I have a personal concern for her welfare just as I would if she were a doctor, nurse or a supermarket worker. She was teaching half a class - thus giving social distancing a chance - throughout June and July with no apparent problem however, it is the prospect of teaching a full class - in accordance with Johnson’s ‘moral responsibility’ demands - that concerns me...not so much from a personal point of view but because the comparatively cramped conditions of most classrooms are the very conditions we are avoiding in all other buildings and are the conditions that are likely to encourage transmission of the virus which will then be taken home to parents, siblings and older family members.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Not particularly pro- or anti- govt, I've been checking out the BBC website, pretty informative and looks at stuff from a lot of angles. Sorry if y'all already check this out https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

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Wow...AF has something positive to say about the BBC shocker. ;D

Latest reports show the majority of the newer cases to be transmitted in the home. Person catches it at, say the pub, goes home and infects the entire family. At least that is the way it is here.

Also, despite the rising number of new cases, the vast majority seem to have either very mild symptoms OR are asyomptomatic. That might point to the the virus weakening, as I predicted from day 1, OR, as some doctors here are suggesting, it might be a new, weaker strain of the virus.

We shall see.

Is the UK showing the same sort of picture as here?

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Latest reports show the majority of the newer cases to be transmitted in the home. Person catches it at, say the pub, goes home and infects the entire family. At least that is the way it is here.

Also, despite the rising number of new cases, the vast majority seem to have either very mild symptoms OR are asyomptomatic. That might point to the the virus weakening, as I predicted from day 1, OR, as some doctors here are suggesting, it might be a new, weaker strain of the virus.

We shall see.

Is the UK showing the same sort of picture as here?

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The informed opinion is that there isn't a new strain of the virus, just that its circulating among the younger fitter members of the population who seem to show few symptoms and are generally (though not always) badly affected.

there is a theory that these infections have been there all along, but now we are testing more people and not just those in hospital, care homes or showing symptoms. Which makes sense and is what should have been happening early days.

Deaths are down, hospital admissions are down so maybe we are entering the new normal?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I agree with you about how unacceptable it would be for children to be ‘roaming the streets not socially distancing’ and I haven’t actually mentioned ‘vulnerable teachers’...they should simply be confined to online provision...end of.

You’re also right that medics, retail - in the area of food/supermarkets anyway - and transport staff have been very much in the front line.

Having said that...my health centre waiting room remains out of action, I understand that many GP appointments are being carried out via the telephone, clothes shops don’t allow the fitting rooms to be used and even supermarkets - where staff, imo, deserve just as much of a clap as those in the NHS - are employing some sort of equation involving square footage of the store and the number of people allowed in at any one time.

Schools are, in all other situations, a known hotbed of viral transmission and even if, in general, younger people do not suffer such a potentially serious version of the virus they still have the capacity to take it home and trigger a new spike/second wave.

Obviously having a daughter who works in a primary school I have a personal concern for her welfare just as I would if she were a doctor, nurse or a supermarket worker. She was teaching half a class - thus giving social distancing a chance - throughout June and July with no apparent problem however, it is the prospect of teaching a full class - in accordance with Johnson’s ‘moral responsibility’ demands - that concerns me...not so much from a personal point of view but because the comparatively cramped conditions of most classrooms are the very conditions we are avoiding in all other buildings and are the conditions that are likely to encourage transmission of the virus which will then be taken home to parents, siblings and older family members.

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As I said rA, other countries including Denmark have managed to return children to school, it can't be that difficult to come up with a plan that enables schools to reopen with as little risk as possible.

The Government will follow its usual line, which is to blame others for its mismanagement!