Another tale about academies and CAFC is in it...

[MikeSB]

Some may think its my favourite topic..

See the link below.

Watford are downgrading their academy from Cat1 to Cat3..

Oldham is an interesting in how much it got in compensation for one player compared with the old rules, something we have yet to see here but the PL do get access to ANYONE now.

I really do think we will have to downgrade it with no great loss imo. But we could save a load of money in the process and its only Dario that is keeping us where we are. What debts are we now building and can we get enough revenue from transfers in the future to just break even? Maybe its only then the Board will come to life? - view external link

[Timmy58]

With respect Mike, this is rubbish, Downgrading our Academy would be a backward step from which we would be unlikely ever to recover. I only hope there is someone around who buys into the efforts to get this status and keeps it going post Dario.

[bigroof]

Fine to give this its own thread, Mike: it can be a decent debate. I'm pretty sure that your alternative of operating a Category Three Academy is one that would've been discussed at board level. John Bowler's 'summer address', back in June, hinted as such, I thought. The board aren't fools though, and they're obviously currently persuaded to maintain their current path. I have the impression that the club employ the bare minimum of staff to satisfy Category Two requirements, and the recent behind-the-scenes changes were designed to maximize their assets; the coaching staff buy into what the club are hoping to achieve, and put the hours in accordingly.
The article you link, I remember well - from two & a half years ago, when the EPPP was new, and appeared daunting to many clubs. I know that Crewe Alexandra's philosophy has been, for a while, that there are no problems, only solutions, and they've approached the new categorization in that spirit, having worked so hard to jump through th

[sprayman]

I have read Mike SB's posts for many months and have wondered what his profession might be. I would suggest that he would make a good journalist. They are said to work on the maxim of "why let the facts ruin a good story". The only reasons for presenting opinion as "fact", which MikeSB does, is either to cause mischief or laziness .A cat3 academy can not coach players until age 11, whereas a cat 2 can take players from age 4 and sign them up at age 9. So, while cat 3 are waiting for their first batch of players, cat2 have already got theirs signed up. I understand that Mike does not agree that players need coaching, but to have missed 7 years of coaching at that early age, for a professional athlete, would be disastrous for their future careers. A case in point here is Ikpazu. He was a good player, but everyone commented on how "raw" he was, having not joined Watford until late in life. Just think what he could have been with the right coaching at an earlier age.
We should also clear

[MikeSB]

What's not factual about no other L1 and L2 clubs have a Cat2 academy apart from 3 or 4. ie Most have decided against it based on cost and facilities which in fairness we have which has been pointed out. What isn't factual that some clubs have downgraded or got rid of the academy altogether? What isn't fact that one of the finest players this country has ever seen ie Greaves thinks coaching can destroy natural ability? What isn't fact that we won the world cup without academies and we lost in the first round just now with them coming out of our ears? What isn't fact that the club has to spend in excess of one million pounds EACH season to be a Cat2 level academy? OK, now lets hear YOUR version of these so called facts that you say have ruined a good story.

NOW! What is my opinion and not factual is MY belief that you cannot 'coach' natural ability otherwise every single sportsman or woman would be world champion and our academy graduates would be easily play at L1 standard whe

[bigroof]

You keep asking questions Mike, but never answer those that others pose. It thus becomes a curious 'debate'! My impression of our board is that it comprises a few moderately successful business types; they're no mugs, I'm sure, as far as money's concerned, and - right now - they've assessed the situation and decided it's still worth us having a Category Two Academy. Why can't you relax and enjoy the current mix of our own youth, and others brought in from elsewhere?!
I ask again though, in your own favoured scenario of Category Three, once the initial 'savings' have been spent on a higher wage bill - since that seems to be the simplistic reasoning behind wanting such a change - what would be the prospects of recouping that cash? From where would they find the funds for the next few years to run the first team, and that moderately cheaper Academy?
As for your final paragraph/question, only a small percentage will come through as Pros, but in each year the 'cream' need a full team in

[Nexus_6_Replicant]

The same "points" you've made countless times before and over many years too Mike. You've had answers, yet choose to ignore them so you can continue anew down the same road. You've even recounted on many occasions that in a conversation you personally had with Dario, he told you that the difference financially for Crewe between Cat 2 and 3 was "cost negligible". Either you've a) forgotten this, b) dismissed it, c) never actually had that conversation. If you believed him, then why on Earth would you want Crewe to drop to Category 3?

It seems that most of your ire is really based on a personal, and totally unqualified belief that coaching is pointless. Why do you persist in insisting on this "belief...you cannot 'coach' natural ability otherwise every single sportsman or woman would be world champion" with the obvious insinuation that the club are attempting to coach anybody to professional stardom? It's obvious, without requiring an IQ of even 3 digits, that they will only bother wi

[VindePays2009]

I'm not going to go down memory lane on MikeSB's linkie, but since Oldham were mentioned, it's sad to see, in Football League highlights programmes over the last year, how slowly and laboriously their (rather small) new stand is going up, and all for a club that has little chance of ever filling it even when complete. Something similar seems to be happening at Northampton Town. Seems like a pointless waste of poured concrete, when the money could have been put into training up young players.

Alex, on the other hand, were able to throw up their enormous south stand in a period of a few months, an example of real ambition. And for why? Well, Dario himself has described it as the Seth Johnson Stand. Surely a vindication of our youth recruitment policy.

Oh, wait a minute, Mike is going to say that this formidable player developed 'naturally' down in Dawlish before we ever took a hand in developing his skills.

[MikeSB]

What replies to questions as how much does the academy cost and how many are employed there and what percentage of the total cost etc? I've never had any answers to those questions.

The whole point about quoting Greaves is that he is of the very same opinion as me in that natural ability cannot be coached and in fact can be detrimental to the player. Why would I change my mind? Would Greves suddenly change his after 50 years knowledge of how this game really works? See thing is its not me that is blind its those that think the academy system is the be all and end all and if that's the case, why isn't the England team doing better in the world cup or the PL developing all there players. Some come through like some of ours come through but we know Dario did that all on a shoe string to start with and brought in players like Platt etc. Derek asks when we have downgraded to Cat3 what next when the money is spent on better players from elsewhere? Easy Derek, the money doesn't dry up

[MikeSB]