Redemption for Millwall.....

[claw84]

black cabinet Minister James Cleverly has just come out and said "taking the knee is not for everyone". Are you listening Lineker, If any footballers want to take the knee do on the side of the pitch, not political gestures on the pitch.

[swaledale]

black cabinet Minister James Cleverly has just come out and said "taking the knee is not for everyone". Are you listening Lineker, If any footballers want to take the knee do on the side of the pitch, not political gestures on the pitch.

But that wasn't the issue was it? The issue was a bunch of neanderthal fans booing a gesture made by Millwall players against racism, so hardly redemption, though obviously it was not all Millwall fans.

I mean even one of your players condemned it! Again BLM has a political aspect which I'm not in favour of, but Milwall and the players made it clear the gesture is about highlighting racism and that its unacceptable.

[Ram59]

Whilst not wishing to defend the Millwall fans, I suspect that there are many people, like me, who were unaware of the subtle change in the gesture of the taking of the knee. It started out as support for BLM, which I disagree with, but only after this weekend am I aware that the gesture is now about highlighting all racism and equality, to which I fully support. I feel my mistake is a result of the continued promoting of BLM on TV whilst covering matches and one would assume that the players taking the knee, is part of this campaign.

I wonder how many fans were/are in my position.

[MadAmster]

'59, having read the views of Holmes, Davies and Rosenior in the monthly Rams mag it is obvious why they continue to do it and the support they get from their team mates should not surprise anyone. BLM did, indeed, start off as a movement to get US police to stop killing blacks. A movement that I agree with. There is a "branch" of BLM that has published a "programme" which basically outlines them replacing whites as "the boss". I don't agree with that. We should all be equal.

As a movement to eradicate racism, I'm with them.

[ramAnag]

black cabinet Minister James Cleverly has just come out and said "taking the knee is not for everyone". Are you listening Lineker, If any footballers want to take the knee do on the side of the pitch, not political gestures on the pitch.

Strange post, claw. I agree with you that individuals who don’t want to ‘take the knee’ shouldn’t be pilloried for their opinion, but surely it is they who should stay ‘on the side of the pitch’ not the BLM participants.

The action is aimed, as Ram59 suggests, at highlighting racism and the inequality that stems from it. Surely that is a good thing and I’m totally with MadAmster in his support for a movement that seeks to ‘eradicate racism’.

I looked at your own FM site last night. Your ‘mod’...someone called Altobelli I think...wrote applauding the actions of those who had booed.
I may be mistaken but ‘shame more don’t do it’ seemed to be his take...interestingly he had attracted the grand total of zero replies when I last looked.

[Geoff Parkstone]

So nobody disagrees with him than rA!

I think to term this as being "redemption for Millwall" is rather misleading. Said Cleverly would appear endorse/not criticise the act of not taking a knee if a player wants. Nowhere do I see him agreeing with booing those who do. That's hardly redemption is it? That simply endorses the right of a player not to be shamed into kneeling by force majeure.

Players should have the right to kneel or not, where not they simply stand still for the moment. There should not be pressure on them to do either, nor shame in their individual choice.

In the US back in the Kapernick days, the hue and cry was linked to a perceived disrespect of the national anthem, as he and others took the knee whilst it was being played. I imagine the same reaction would happen here should players take the knee during the playing of an anthem at the cup final or during international matches.

Its all about respect, respect for those taking, or chosing not to take, the knee. And timing it so as not to cause disrespect to other "moments". I'm no royalist, but to take a knee during an anthem would rightly be booed - if people want the knee respected, they must also respect other customs

[claw84]

All I can say is that Millwall are leading the way, tonight Lions players will stand together with arms linked in a show of solidarity, no more kneeling on the ground, we endorse racial equality but not in a subservient way.

[ramAnag]

I'm no royalist, but to take a knee during an anthem would rightly be booed.

Why? I may have misinterpreted but, imo, ‘taking the knee’ during the US anthem was never anti USA...it was anti institutionalised racism within the USA. The same would be the case during the anthem here imo...not necessarily anti monarchist but again...anti institutionalised racism in the name of the Queen.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Because, as was the case in the States, taking a knee during the anthem disrespects your own flag. Patriots in the states found that hugely offensive and that has lead to kapernick not having worked since, such was the reaction.

Now I know the septics are much more gung ho about their flag, but a sure way to get anti BLM sentiment elevated even here would be to do that, not just amongst the EDF but amongst mild mannered middle england

[ramAnag]

Because, as was the case in the States, taking a knee during the anthem disrespects your own flag. Patriots in the states found that hugely offensive and that has lead to kapernick not having worked since, such was the reaction.

Now I know the septics are much more gung ho about their flag, but a sure way to get anti BLM sentiment elevated even here would be to do that, not just amongst the EDF but amongst mild mannered middle england

Take your point...but maybe we need to question the definition of ‘Patriot’. A real ‘patriot’ would surely want to see their country achieve the best for all its citizens and recognise that questioning/demonstrating against a nation’s flaws is not unpatriotic.

I accept your second paragraph but isn’t asking such questions the best way to wake up ‘mild mannered middle England’.

Have you watched ‘The Crown’? Didn’t expect to enjoy it but it’s surprisingly good. I know it’s a drama and not a documentary, but presumably much is rooted in fact otherwise there’d be law suits flying left, right and centre. Interesting how appalled, as head of State and the Commonwealth, the Queen was at Thatcher’s reluctance to enforce anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa.
Thankfully the Queen won the day and I doubt anyone questioned her patriotism.