Luis Rubiates and Spanish Women's football

[swaledale]

It, seems old misogynistic attitudes remain entrenched at the top of the Spanish FA, given that Rubiates says he won't resign and sees nothing greatly wrong with grabbing a woman publicly and kissing her on the lips, or grabbing his crotch next to a woman and a ****age girl!!

Now the Spanish women international players ahve said they won't play for Spain until he resigns or is removed, FIFA have suspended Rubiates, but the Spanish FA have apparently threatened the player concerned Jenni Hermoso with legal action and said the women have "an obligation to play", this could get messy!

Rubiates is also a member of UEFA, who notably have said nothing as yet.

[Andy_Faber]

It, seems old misogynistic attitudes remain entrenched at the top of the Spanish FA, given that Rubiates says he won't resign and sees nothing greatly wrong with grabbing a woman publicly and kissing her on the lips, or grabbing his crotch next to a woman and a ****age girl!!

Now the Spanish women international players ahve said they won't play for Spain until he resigns or is removed, FIFA have suspended Rubiates, but the Spanish FA have apparently threatened the player concerned Jenni Hermoso with legal action and said the women have "an obligation to play", this could get messy!

Rubiates is also a member of UEFA, who notably have said nothing as yet.

Neither action are something I approve of or have ever done or got close to even in ‘Laddo’ days but IMO he would be found not guilty in a court of law, we’ll see if it gets that far.

[swaledale]

Neither action are something I approve of or have ever done or got close to even in ‘Laddo’ days but IMO he would be found not guilty in a court of law, we’ll see if it gets that far.

Depends what he was charged with, its basically ***ual assault if the player wanted to go that far. But the legal action by the Spanish government will be on the basis that it was unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour by a person in his position and that the Spanish football federation should have censured him or suspended him pending an investigation.

However, it seems they are supporting him and threatening the women with legal action, now that surely won't be tolerated by the women, plus there is history over this behaviour, with the Womens International manager Jorges Vilda being accused by the women players of unacceptable behaviour and attitude.

Breaking news, all of the coaches from the Spain womens team have resigned, this is going to be interesting and hopefully will see a change in the culture at the top.

[Andy_Faber]

Depends what he was charged with, its basically ***ual assault if the player wanted to go that far. But the legal action by the Spanish government will be on the basis that it was unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour by a person in his position and that the Spanish football federation should have censured him or suspended him pending an investigation.

However, it seems they are supporting him and threatening the women with legal action, now that surely won't be tolerated by the women, plus there is history over this behaviour, with the Womens International manager Jorges Vilda being accused by the women players of unacceptable behaviour and attitude.

Breaking news, all of the coaches from the Spain womens team have resigned, this is going to be interesting and hopefully will see a change in the culture at the top.

Yes depends on the charge, IMO the ***ual assault area would fail having seen the footage but all such situations are ‘complicated, not least by the trial by media having already been concluded

[ramAnag]

Inappropriate, stupid, arrogant and boorish...all fair comment imo...but to call it ‘***ual assault’ is insulting - again imo - to anyone who’s been a genuine victim of ***ual assault.

[Andy_Faber]

Inappropriate, stupid, arrogant and boorish...all fair comment imo...but to call it ‘***ual assault’ is insulting - again imo - to anyone who’s been a genuine victim of ***ual assault.

On first reading rA I completely agree, but then again, in the somewhat (being polite) topsy turvy world we currently live in, who’s to say where ‘genuine’ starts?

[swaledale]

Inappropriate, stupid, arrogant and boorish...all fair comment imo...but to call it ‘***ual assault’ is insulting - again imo - to anyone who’s been a genuine victim of ***ual assault.

Any situation where a woman or any person for that matter is subjected to unwanted physical contact, whatever the supposed motivation is, is an assault. This is the very definition of a ***ual assault, albeit less serious in terms of what happened.

But hey rA if your happy to argue over whether unwarranted ***ual contact done against a persons consent amounts to "genuine" ***ual assault or not, then maybe you need to rexamine your standards!!

Lets not forget, this is the head of the football federation here, a guy with power over the person he kissed. Basically he took advantage of the euphoria of the situation, the fact it was public and the fact he has the power. He and indeed the federation have a history of inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.

Based on the footage, in this country a ***ual assault charge would be successful, there is no doubt that it happened, the person on the receiving end says it was not consensual, that she was shocked by it ( as one would be int hat situation), I've seen people be convicted for less and rightly so. Fortunately in the Uk we have moved past the age where the law would say a chap was just getting carried away or even "I was drunk" M'Lord. Especially so when we are talking about the power imbalance here in an employment situation.

AF - so by topsy turvey you mean you think its a bit harsh to sanction a man who steals a kiss from a woman, or pinches/slaps her bottom or touches her thigh merely because it was a done in "fun" or affectionately, even though there was no consent from one of them?

Must admit I'm very surprised at the reaction here, thought on this issue at least there would be some recognition that men need to have a little bit of respect for women, given what they ahve had to endure in decades past.

Fortunately the world has moved on and this guy will get his just deserts and be sacked from his job. Ladies you just have to stick together.

[swaledale]

Inappropriate, stupid, arrogant and boorish...all fair comment imo...but to call it ‘***ual assault’ is insulting - again imo - to anyone who’s been a genuine victim of ***ual assault.

, IF that had been your wife/daughter on the receiving end, you'd say, "Suck it up love he didn't mean any harm"?

But hey rA if your happy to argue over whether unwarranted ***ual contact done against a persons consent amounts to "genuine" ***ual assault or not, then maybe you need to rexamine your standards!!

Lets not forget, this is the head of the football federation here, a guy with power over the person he kissed. Basically he took advantage of the euphoria of the situation, the fact it was public and the fact he has the power. He and indeed the federation have a history of inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.

Based on the footage, in this country a ***ual assault charge would be successful, there is no doubt that it happened, the person on the receiving end says it was not consensual, that she was shocked by it ( as one would be int hat situation), I've seen people be convicted for less and rightly so. Fortunately in the Uk we have moved past the age where the law would say a chap was just getting carried away or even "I was drunk" M'Lord. Especially so when we are talking about the power imbalance here in an employment situation.

AF - so by topsy turvey you mean you think its a bit harsh to sanction a man who steals a kiss from a woman, or pinches/slaps her bottom or touches her thigh merely because it was a done in "fun" or affectionately, even though there was no consent from one of them?

Must admit I'm very surprised at the reaction here, thought on this issue at least there would be some recognition that men need to have a little bit of respect for women, given what they ahve had to endure in decades past.

Fortunately the Any situation where a woman or any person for that matter is subjected to unwanted physical contact, whatever the supposed motivation is, is an assault. This is the very definition of a ***ual assault, albeit less serious compared to others, but it doesn't alter the fact.

So guysworld has moved on and t just deserts and be sacked from his job. Ladies you just have to stick together.

[swaledale]

Inappropriate, stupid, arrogant and boorish...all fair comment imo...but to call it ‘***ual assault’ is insulting - again imo - to anyone who’s been a genuine victim of ***ual assault.

Any such action which is done without consent is a ***ual assault rA! It might be less serious in terms of others, but that doesn't negate the fact it is a ***ual assault and your failure to recognise it as such, suggests that your views are still rooted in the past, when it was acceptable for men to treat women in that manner.

So guys, what your effectively saying is that if that was your wife, daughter, partner on the receiving end, you wouldn't be that concerned?

Not sure how you come to the conclusion based on what has been shown that any ***ual assault charge would fail, certainly in the Uk less serious acts have resulted in a conviction, it certainly can't be acceptable in this day and age for a man to kiss a woman on the lips, or touch her unless she has explicitly consented to it. I don't see how in that situation, one can't see that a man who is effectively the woman's boss, with immense power over her career, has taken advantage of that, the euphoria of the situation and done something which she would neither be expecting or be in a position to react to in that moment.

This so called trial by media, is merely the reporting of the reactions of the woman herself, the evidence of what he actually did, the evidence that this is only the tip of the ice berg, that players who previously rebelled against the behaviour of the manager were frozen out for complaining. I mean , whatever ones views on his motive, what cannot be denied is that he kissed her full on the lips in public, with both hands holding her head. His defence against that action is what? His intent wasn't negative? You two seem to forget, that it not how you feel or what your opinion is in these cases, its how the woman feels and clearly she doesn't feel or consider it acceptable.

Well I'm surprised at you two, but clearly it is not only in the Spanish football authorities where the patriarchal view that unwanted physical contact, however well intentioned with a woman is considered not to be a serious offence. In any workplace, you'd be sacked for that and rightly so, hopefully he will be as well and there will be some wholesale changes at the top of Spanish football.

[SithHappens]

The crotch grab was definitely weird, not the sort of thing you do.

The kiss, no one should kiss someone without consent pure and simple.

Its not strictly true to say though the media are just reporting on her reactions and what he did, because her immediate response while stating she didn't enjoy it was that it was a spontaneous and mutual gesture and stated she had a great relationship with him, that it was a natural gesture of affection.

The view seems to have changed as the incident has received more publicity and more people have had a say on the matter.

It's very hard to comment on without looking like you condone an action because you cannot condone an action where both people involved don't consent, but her very words she used initially 'mutual gesture ' implies consent ?

If genuinely there wasn't then he should be sacked, I'd sack him for the crotch grab myself though.