O/T emotional blackmail to win debates

[the_idiotb_stardson]

We have all been guilty of it but it really is getting to be a severe obstruction to constructive debate on here and society in general. It usually involves a person making a statement on a topical issue which someone reacts to by telling the story of a tragedy that involves them in some way.

I am not sure when this started. I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc. I also see it in the perversion of political correctness, which initially had good intentions but became a kind of intolerance in itself.


To take a topical example you might get something like this:

Person A: I think the stats of corona deaths have been exaggerated and how deaths are recorded are very unclear.
Person B. How can you say that, my neighbour died of the virus last week! Shame on you.


As you can see, Person B's statement does not make Person A's statement untrue. Tragic as it is that Person B's neighbour has died of the virus. It doesn't mean the death stats are not being exaggerated.


Another example:

Person A: I think the invasion of Iraq was wrong and based on a lie.
Person B: My cousin died in Iraq to protect people like you.

These statements are not even linked but it shows how damaging this emotional blackmail can become. Because a relative of Person B died, and it is a tragedy, it does not mean the invasion of Iraq was just.



I see society being paralysed by this style of debating.

Of course if we are personally affected, we will have an emotional response, but that should not set the agenda for an overall outcome for the issue.


I am as guilty as anyone but I was just wondering if we should all raise our standards and argue points without trying to emotionally blackmail people?


I really enjoy the debates on here and have learned loads over the years. I genuinely believe no one on here is an evil lunatic who enjoys watching people suffer. I think we all want the best outcome. We just have different ideas of how to achieve that. In recent times though, reasoned debate has suffered at the hands-off trying to guilt trip someone.

I am guilty too but I am going to try harder not to score cheap points.

[great_fire]

Feelings not facts.

[LincsMiller]

We have all been guilty of it but it really is getting to be a severe obstruction to constructive debate on here and society in general. It usually involves a person making a statement on a topical issue which someone reacts to by telling the story of a tragedy that involves them in some way.

I am not sure when this started. I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc. I also see it in the perversion of political correctness, which initially had good intentions but became a kind of intolerance in itself.


To take a topical example you might get something like this:

Person A: I think the stats of corona deaths have been exaggerated and how deaths are recorded are very unclear.
Person B. How can you say that, my neighbour died of the virus last week! Shame on you.


As you can see, Person B's statement does not make Person A's statement untrue. Tragic as it is that Person B's neighbour has died of the virus. It doesn't mean the death stats are not being exaggerated.


Another example:

Person A: I think the invasion of Iraq was wrong and based on a lie.
Person B: My cousin died in Iraq to protect people like you.

These statements are not even linked but it shows how damaging this emotional blackmail can become. Because a relative of Person B died, and it is a tragedy, it does not mean the invasion of Iraq was just.



I see society being paralysed by this style of debating.

Of course if we are personally affected, we will have an emotional response, but that should not set the agenda for an overall outcome for the issue.


I am as guilty as anyone but I was just wondering if we should all raise our standards and argue points without trying to emotionally blackmail people?


I really enjoy the debates on here and have learned loads over the years. I genuinely believe no one on here is an evil lunatic who enjoys watching people suffer. I think we all want the best outcome. We just have different ideas of how to achieve that. In recent times though, reasoned debate has suffered at the hands-off trying to guilt trip someone.

I am guilty too but I am going to try harder not to score cheap points.

A good observation IBS .

[rolymiller]

I am not sure when this started. I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc. I also see it in the perversion of political correctness, which initially had good intentions but became a kind of intolerance in itself.

Early bollax in your argument per usual... "I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc" ...Kilroy aint been on TV for years as far as Im aware. Is he even alive now? And Kyle was disgraced and taken off a couple of years back. Both of these programmes had nowt to do with reality...just a means to flog the presenters own egos and their own agendas and to appeal to Sun reader type viewers...they weren't real people just hand picked and controlled to do a job for the presenters...

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I am not sure when this started. I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc. I also see it in the perversion of political correctness, which initially had good intentions but became a kind of intolerance in itself.

Early bollax in your argument per usual... "I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc" ...Kilroy aint been on TV for years as far as Im aware. Is he even alive now? And Kyle was disgraced and taken off a couple of years back. Both of these programmes had nowt to do with reality...just a means to flog the presenters own egos and their own agendas and to appeal to Sun reader type viewers...they weren't real people just hand picked and controlled to do a job for the presenters...

I did use the word "seeds" Roly.

On these shows the audience on Jeremy Kyle was usually given the chance to spout off at the people on stage and were guaranteed a round of applause if they came out with over emotional nonsense. This manipulation off the emotions is what is stifling debate. In my opinion of course. You may agree to differ.

It may also have to do with the general dumbing down of education.

For my own part I maybe wrong or right about the origins, it is not the main thrust of my post though. I maintain that debates are very often stifled by emotional responses which do not make points true or false on many occasions.

[great_fire]

In another blow to left-wing/ Momentum trolls, comments on the Telegraph are now subscriber only.

[ragingpup]

We have all been guilty of it but it really is getting to be a severe obstruction to constructive debate on here and society in general. It usually involves a person making a statement on a topical issue which someone reacts to by telling the story of a tragedy that involves them in some way.

I am not sure when this started. I see seeds of it in reality TV shows like Kilroy or Jeremy Kyle etc. I also see it in the perversion of political correctness, which initially had good intentions but became a kind of intolerance in itself.


To take a topical example you might get something like this:

Person A: I think the stats of corona deaths have been exaggerated and how deaths are recorded are very unclear.
Person B. How can you say that, my neighbour died of the virus last week! Shame on you.


As you can see, Person B's statement does not make Person A's statement untrue. Tragic as it is that Person B's neighbour has died of the virus. It doesn't mean the death stats are not being exaggerated.


Another example:

Person A: I think the invasion of Iraq was wrong and based on a lie.
Person B: My cousin died in Iraq to protect people like you.

These statements are not even linked but it shows how damaging this emotional blackmail can become. Because a relative of Person B died, and it is a tragedy, it does not mean the invasion of Iraq was just.



I see society being paralysed by this style of debating.

Of course if we are personally affected, we will have an emotional response, but that should not set the agenda for an overall outcome for the issue.


I am as guilty as anyone but I was just wondering if we should all raise our standards and argue points without trying to emotionally blackmail people?


I really enjoy the debates on here and have learned loads over the years. I genuinely believe no one on here is an evil lunatic who enjoys watching people suffer. I think we all want the best outcome. We just have different ideas of how to achieve that. In recent times though, reasoned debate has suffered at the hands-off trying to guilt trip someone.

I am guilty too but I am going to try harder not to score cheap points.

Interesting post IBS. But can't say I've seen any specific examples of this been used in any widescale way, either here or elsewhere. Or at least anymore now than in past years. Can you give examples of where you have seen this actually happening from real life? I'm sure there are isolated examples, but widespread? Where? When? Maybe I'm just missing them! Wife tells me that's a fallibility of mine...

[CAMiller]

Interesting post IBS. But can't say I've seen any specific examples of this been used in any widescale way, either here or elsewhere. Or at least anymore now than in past years. Can you give examples of where you have seen this actually happening from real life? I'm sure there are isolated examples, but widespread? Where? When? Maybe I'm just missing them! Wife tells me that's a fallibility of mine...

Just the other day.

Brin: I think the entire history of the Moon landings was a complete hoax.
CAMiller: You won't be saying that the next time your egg sticks to your frying pan.

[mikemiller]

IBS - you are living in the USA, building the wall on the Mexico border. Well, that's what you told us. They won't even know who Jeremy Kyle or Kilroy is out there (lucky them) - so I don't really understand your point. Although, there is absolutely no need to trudge through the pointless attention-seeking garbage again.... I don't think that I even want to find out.

I was hoping that due to the coronavirus crisis the Pope, or Archbishop of Canterbury, or somebody would extend Lent indefinitely. Imagine how my heart sank when I found that was not the case!

[crashbang]

Just the other day.

Brin: I think the entire history of the Moon landings was a complete hoax.
CAMiller: You won't be saying that the next time your egg sticks to your frying pan.

Good point cam.
Brin seems to say the moon landing was a hoax.
But can't say how all the other landings were fake. Must have been some scam.