O/T:- Prison

[pingu_pie]

I guess this could end up as something that is split the same as most other O/T things on here, but here goes...

Without specific examples, I remember the odd newspaper article over the years that generally was being outraged at some change in the prison system / one particular prison. The tack was usually about prisoners having TVs / games consoles / trainers in one case.

I'm sort of intrigued as to what people think their attitude is towards prison, and if they think this might have altered at all now that most people are in lockdown.

I would say for myself that even with things like books, internet access, TV, Netflix, games, and the various other things that we have to occupy the mind that being restricted to home (or, in my case, my new workplace) is pretty tough, particularly mentally, and it's only been a month. That's not to say that I ever thought prison was easy or anything like that, I've always imagined that they are hard places to be and I have less than no desire to ever find out, but I'm not sure I appreciated just how difficult the restriction of movement could be. And they have far more restrictions than we do at the current moment.

Cross fingers, hoping this could be an interesting debate on the above, maybe even the role of prison in terms of punishment versus rehabilitation....

[upthemaggies]

I guess this could end up as something that is split the same as most other O/T things on here, but here goes...

Without specific examples, I remember the odd newspaper article over the years that generally was being outraged at some change in the prison system / one particular prison. The tack was usually about prisoners having TVs / games consoles / trainers in one case.

I'm sort of intrigued as to what people think their attitude is towards prison, and if they think this might have altered at all now that most people are in lockdown.

I would say for myself that even with things like books, internet access, TV, Netflix, games, and the various other things that we have to occupy the mind that being restricted to home (or, in my case, my new workplace) is pretty tough, particularly mentally, and it's only been a month. That's not to say that I ever thought prison was easy or anything like that, I've always imagined that they are hard places to be and I have less than no desire to ever find out, but I'm not sure I appreciated just how difficult the restriction of movement could be. And they have far more restrictions than we do at the current moment.

Cross fingers, hoping this could be an interesting debate on the above, maybe even the role of prison in terms of punishment versus rehabilitation....

The public need protecting from certain individuals but I've never understood the idea that it should be a punishment and then you release people who are going to be even more screwed up back into the outside world. If you need prisons to act as a deterrent then what does that say about us as a society? It's basically an admission that the system will inevitably ruin a lot of people and the only way to deal with them is to ruin them some more.

[drillerpie]

Interesting post. I think prison should be punitive, and rehabilitative. I don't even know if that's possible.

What I do know is that somehow being tough on law and order has become the preserve of the right, and I don't understand why.

Obeying laws should be non negotiable and from my experience watching what happened around me growing up I'd say that in rough areas one repeat offender (who yes, almost certainly was brought up badly in a problematic environment and needs help) can make plenty of other people's (who probably also didn't have a great start in life either) lives a misery.

If you want to help poor people in poor areas, getting rid of the thieves, vandals and violent criminals in those areas is one of the best ways to do it.

I suppose getting prisoners trained up and educated is difficult, time consuming and expensive, which probably explains why it doesn't happen. But I think just locking them up and throwing away the key or letting them play pool, watch Sky Sports and pump weights until they get out isn't helping anyone in the long run.

Disclaimer - never been anywhere near a prison so have no authority on this topic whatsoever.

[LaxtonLad]

The public need protecting from certain individuals but I've never understood the idea that it should be a punishment and then you release people who are going to be even more screwed up back into the outside world. If you need prisons to act as a deterrent then what does that say about us as a society? It's basically an admission that the system will inevitably ruin a lot of people and the only way to deal with them is to ruin them some more.

Blame "the system" if you like but we're all exposed to the system and "society" and we don't all fail, so haven't these people ruined themselves or at least contributed to their situation? No, of course not, it's the fault of innocents in society who follow the system and want a quiet life, they deserve all they get.

[maddogslater]

An interesting question and comparison, the lockdown is causing me anguish and feelings of claustrophobia, I imagine it must be a lot worse being incarcerated.
Of course some people need to be there but we should be treating them with dignity and trying to rehabilitate them. In the US prison is a big corporate money maker.

[the_anticlough]

Good topic, and a really difficult one.
I'm a long way from being a liberal so I have don't have that rehabilitation reflex. I sense we're way past that, the criminal fraternity have such an ingrained anti-authority, amoral outlook that so many are resistant to any appeals to better nature.
One of my favourites books is Crime and Punishment - Raskolnikov was rehabiliated, but it took the gulag to do it. He wasn't all that bad to start with, but did bludgeon someone to death and had to come terms with that.
'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' was a great formula - but the first part of that has to be taken literally and I'm thinking Pappillon and Shawshank Redemption!!! Only without the corruption and buggery...
Ideally the penal system would be able to rehabilitate offenders, but in this culture we better make sure we have deterrent, justice for victims and a punishment regime that can have some spiritual impact.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

The difficulty is fitting many individuals into a single system. Stats show us that as high as 80% of prisoners reoffend. And the vast majority currently incarcerated are also repeat offenders.
That shows it is neither working as a deterrent nor as rehabilitation.

So what is the answer? We need to invest in a system which has a number of paths and not treat all prisoners the same. And that investment should not be in prisoner comforts.

For a start, repeating offenders need a greater deterrent. My view would be cumulative sentencing. You add the previous sentence onto this one up to the doubling of the time.

Good behaviour should be a given, and should only ensure you serve only your full sentence.

All prisoners get the opportunity to “work off” their sentence in some way assisting either society or paying for the victims if they’re crimes. This can only be individually tailored and should allow for reasonable skilling (which is not part of the reduction).

First time offenders should be distanced from other prisoners as much as is reasonable.

This is going to cost for sure. But what is the cost of courts, police, victims.....

[drillerpie]

Wow some very thoughtful posts so far. I have to say I agree with almost everything that has been written.

[navypie]

Wow some very thoughtful posts so far. I have to say I agree with almost everything that has been written.

From murder to council tax evasion, lock em up and throw away the key.

[60YearsAPie]

Our ancestors had the right idea - transportation! It removed the criminal from society and the only expense was the cost of the journey. It also solved the problem of reoffenders.

Before transportation you could be hung for over 200 offences. Some of the more unusual were: being in the company of gypsies for a month, being out at night with a blackened face, impersonating a Chelsea pensioner, damaging Westminster Bridge, and writing a threatening letter!

We used to transport criminals to the American colonies prior to the War of Independence, then we started sending them to Australia.

Either or both of these destinations seem a good option if transportation returned.