What’s the Point of EU Alliance Nato

[baggieal]

Unless everyone sings from the same hymn sheet what’s the point!!’ Genocide in Ukraine and still with some countries protecting their own interests ie:

Hungary willing to pay Russia in Roubles for energy and Germany protecting their own interests over Natural Gas!!! Incredible!

Unless you are Jewish why would you now go to one of the old concentration camps with what’s happening in Ukraine! What’s the difference?

I can totally understand the USA public saying which should they continue to police the world when the EU/NATO are not even united!!

So what if this leads to WW3 - Putin needs to be taken out!! What a truly filthy and disgusting country China is for at least not demanding aid and food is allowed into Mariupol!! That’s not taking sides!! So what do we do - keep buying Chinese tat!!

Sanctions on Putin’s daughters - wow!! Throw them out of the country along with revoking citizenship of Oligarchs!! Don’t they hate the West after all or do they love the nice things!!!

Pathetic response from the West!

[Dubbag]

I don't agree.
All things considered...a pretty decent response. Of course not as quick but vested interests will always hold things up
Germany has 40% gas reliance on Russia. Can't just stop.... although I personally would take the consequences.... Hungry I would suspend from NATO with immediate effect.
Fence sitting nations I would be getting tougher with .....

But trying to get 27 nations to all agree is difficult...mostly because their heads have been well buried in the sands since the banking crisis scrweed things up..... USA is like UK....in decline....so it was never going to be easy....not like 50 years a go...
Changing world with changing under currents too... Countries with big reliance on arms exports are as much to blame because they will do what they can to keep this going on.....a lot of armaments have expiry dates... Use or lose....or else just have another war...

[Omegstrat6]

Guess that with such a varied membership not all NATO countries will agree on everything and, of course, some are more heavily reliant on Russian supplies of gas/oil than others which will naturally influence their decision making. I wonder if Boris's response would be different if the UK relied on Russia for 40% of its gas? Just saying that it is easier to take the moral high ground for those with less integral links.

Having said that, whilst I still believe that NATO cannot directly become involved (as Ukraine is not a member and this would only escalate the situation) I do totally agree that the West should supply more military aid including suitable aircraft/tanks and more powerful weaponry if Ukrainian forces can operate them. With the failings of the Russian military in this invasion being clear this is a time to take full advantage of any weaknesses before they can regroup and re-organize. This conflict will only get worse as Putin will be desperate to claim some kind of victory.

I still believe that any peace settlement will see parts of eastern Ukraine ceded to Russia but whilst some parts are obviously pro Russian, Putin is after much more and clearly aims for a land bridge to access Crimea through the country's southern regions. Ukraine must be supported more to stop this.

Current news reports of Ukrainian forces shooting wounded or captured soldiers will be made the most of by Putin but, whilst this cannot be condoned, this is what happens in war when one side commits atrocities such as the murder of civilians and rape and the other responds in revenge. But there is still a difference between attacks on military targets and on civilians. The problem is that this situation quickly escalates and the rules of engagement and Geneva convention fall by the wayside.

Can see this dragging on and getting worse with further destruction of Ukraine and increased suffering of civilians so totally agree that the West must do more and Putin stopped. Economic sanctions will bite but are not enough.

[baggieal]

Guess that with such a varied membership not all NATO countries will agree on everything and, of course, some are more heavily reliant on Russian supplies of gas/oil than others which will naturally influence their decision making. I wonder if Boris's response would be different if the UK relied on Russia for 40% of its gas? Just saying that it is easier to take the moral high ground for those with less integral links.

Having said that, whilst I still believe that NATO cannot directly become involved (as Ukraine is not a member and this would only escalate the situation) I do totally agree that the West should supply more military aid including suitable aircraft/tanks and more powerful weaponry if Ukrainian forces can operate them. With the failings of the Russian military in this invasion being clear this is a time to take full advantage of any weaknesses before they can regroup and re-organize. This conflict will only get worse as Putin will be desperate to claim some kind of victory.

I still believe that any peace settlement will see parts of eastern Ukraine ceded to Russia but whilst some parts are obviously pro Russian, Putin is after much more and clearly aims for a land bridge to access Crimea through the country's southern regions. Ukraine must be supported more to stop this.

Current news reports of Ukrainian forces shooting wounded or captured soldiers will be made the most of by Putin but, whilst this cannot be condoned, this is what happens in war when one side commits atrocities such as the murder of civilians and rape and the other responds in revenge. But there is still a difference between attacks on military targets and on civilians. The problem is that this situation quickly escalates and the rules of engagement and Geneva convention fall by the wayside.

Can see this dragging on and getting worse with further destruction of Ukraine and increased suffering of civilians so totally agree that the West must do more and Putin stopped. Economic sanctions will bite but are not enough.

Good post! Apparently the West are planning to supply heavy artillery now so let’s hope so!! There can be no more Bucha’s but fear Mariupol will be worse!

Executing a soldier if true is bad but not a comparison to the massacre of civilians including innocent women and kids. You would expect soldiers to be killed regardless of how it’s done.

Donbas yes but there’s no way that Putin can be allowed to keep a land corridor and the sea ports as Ukraine will have no economy as such.

How can any country ever negotiate with Putin again! Keep sanctions in place for a long time! Germany has to do more and by not doing so they are paying for the war machine!

[wbaliquidator]

Very concerning for me is that even suspending Russia from the Human Rights council saw dozens of nations against or abstain.

We expected the usual rogue nations to act in this way and other two faced nations like Pakistan and most of the gulf regions but its alarming how many others are still hedging their bets.

For me NO more foreign aid to Any of those for a start. Or expect us to come running to those African states when Ebola surfaces again, or Famine in East Africa.

Let them look towards Russia and China if they want, BUT don’t expect the west to come to their aid.

OK the west could and should have done more but honestly how could they !!
Be careful what you wish for to all those who abstained

[baggieal]

Very concerning for me is that even suspending Russia from the Human Rights council saw dozens of nations against or abstain.

We expected the usual rogue nations to act in this way and other two faced nations like Pakistan and most of the gulf regions but its alarming how many others are still hedging their bets.

For me NO more foreign aid to Any of those for a start. Or expect us to come running to those African states when Ebola surfaces again, or Famine in East Africa.

Let them look towards Russia and China if they want, BUT don’t expect the west to come to their aid.

OK the west could and should have done more but honestly how could they !!
Be careful what you wish for to all those who abstained

Totally 100% agree! We are still sending millions of aid to Afghanistan and hearing about schools for girls closed again etc etc. Surely this should not be our problem especially when the Afghan army ran away and s hit themselves.

Maybe rich gulf countries like Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE should help fund this!!!

The USA public are starting to demand they can’t keep policing and helping the world and I get this! USA are doing loads with Ukraine and then Hungary says we will pay for Russian Gas In Roubles!! Chuck them out of the Alliance!! I get Germany receive 40% of their gas from Russia but indirectly that’s feeding the killing machines so needs to stop!

[baggiematt]

It's purpose is a defensive pact for members. Given there has been no wars with Nato countries since it's inception, it's met it's purpose, surely.

[Omegstrat6]

Agree with a lot of all this! I understand that Hungary's political system and leanings are different than its more Westerly allies but surely there must be a level of consensus between NATO members and shared beliefs aside from military co-operation?. Other member nations need to put more pressure on them.

As for Putin, it may have been seen as a politically naive and damaging statement from one world leader about another, but Sleepy Joe was dead right because Putin is a war criminal and going forward in terms of negotiation, he is not someone who can be seen as otherwise. Like Stalin, he may be head of Russia but that doesn't mean that we have to do business with him and that once this war is over that things should go back to how they were in terms of trade deals. He is not-as Thatcher once said to Reagan of Gorbachov- "someone we can do a deal with" and the West must continue it's sanctions until Putin is gone and a more suitable regime change is in place that might allow Russia a way back.

I hope that the moral indignation that Putin's invasion has led to in the West now spreads so that Western nations also look more closely at the other unsavoury regimes they get into bed with but somehow doubt that this will happen. Greed, commerce and political expediency tend to trump moral outrage in most cases. Ukraine has caught the attention because the situation there more directly threatens Western interests and stability as would any escalation of China's posturing over Taiwan and the South China Sea but events in Yemen, for example, will not. The nature of geo-politics I suppose, but doesn't mean we have to like it or not press for change.