The end of the union

[Getintaethem]

The SNP are doing an amazing job with the services like the NHS for example .
Come May the SNP will be triumphant in many areas around Scotland and rightly so.

Even if it was true on the NHS there are lots of people who will disagree with this statement, I repeat, it is clear an Independent Scotland would have to reduce public spending - no matter who was in power. So will services improve in an Independent Scotland - no.

The SNP will do better in May because since the last local government elections support for the Labour party has plummeted. This will not be the story, the percentage of the vote will be the interesting aspect to these elections.

[Disco Buc]

Sure.

Programme for International Student Assessment (Pisa) figures is managed through the OECD. It started in 2000 and looks at countries every three years. It is recognised by Governments internationally. In the last figures we dropped below England and as the following graph demonstrates this is the worst set of results that Scotland has ever had.
www.oecd.org/pisa

Attachment 3876

The proportion of pupils performing well or very well in reading has fallen since 2011 in all three of the age groups measured by the Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy - Primary 4, Primary 7 and Second Year at High School. Writing standards also reduced for the oldest category, while maths has decreased for all three age groups measured. The biggest decrease during this timeframe in both writing and numeracy performance among 13 and 14-year-olds has been the poorest kids. Stats are all to be found on the Scottish Governments website.
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistic...Education/SSLN

On the website it doesn't SEEM to seperate Scotland from England .

[Getintaethem]

On the website it doesn't SEEM to seperate Scotland from England .

Hmm. They definitely show Scotland stats separately somewhere but I cannot find them easily either. Anyway, the separate reports from England and Scotland can be found here.

Scottish report (produced by Scotland) can be found here:
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00511095.pdf

This chart shows how countries below us have improved to be similar to us and the ones that were similar to us have gone ahead of us.



English report (produced by the UK Government) can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...rt-for-england

Our performance against England is shown here. First time we have gone behind England in science, english and maths.

[Stupie82]

These stats are all good and well, but the truth is we can all find some sort of data that fits our agendas. Thats not to say yours are not truthful or informative , only that someone will find something to counteract them.

The truth of the matter is that no one knows what would happen in an independent Scotland, nor can we use current graphs and models help to support that it would/wouldnt work. All we know is what we have now and make an informative decision based on that. The trouble with human nature is that not everyone can be pleased by the same things and because of this we will mostly differ on independence.

My own thoughts are that it would be successful, or else i wouldnt vote for it. Its blind faith to a degree, but then i dont rate the current UK government, nor the plenty before them and an independent Scotland in my eyes would be no worse than the state the UK is now. Would it improve? i dont know, but IMO its worth the shot. Mediocre governments have become the norm and people are almost settling for it and that to me is the saddest part of it all.

[ohno]

Until there is a balanced discussion on actual finance no side can really determine if Scotland will be worse or better off.
We hear Scotland has no debt as Westminster holds the purse strings and we cannot borrow money yet as the UK debt is pushing TWO TRILLION POUNDS Scotlands share is a tenth of that, so we must be in debt.
There is an argument about tax raising too again but if you don't raise ALL the taxes payable in Scotland then nobody has any accurate figures to work on.
What I do know is we are faced with another right wing tory goverment for years who will destroy the NHS, show no mercy on the sick and disabled and when we are pulled out of Europe blame ALL our problems on Johnny Foreigner. Inflicting more austerity on the lower/middle class whilst rewarding big business.

[Getintaethem]

These stats are all good and well, but the truth is we can all find some sort of data that fits our agendas.

I was asked to provide this by Buc! As they are from the Scottish Governments own website and produced by the Scottish Government (its their own report/figures), I doubt they can be refuted.

Secondly, we can know what will happen post independence because we know what our financial position will be after independence because these are also Government figures. We (in Scotland) have a current deficit of £15bn per year. That £15bn deficit was created in Scotland by spending more money than we are now able to produce as a nation. Unless you have a smart way of getting rid of that (that no one else has thought of), we will need to borrow (at a worse interest rate than the UK), put up taxes and reduce services. At the moment the rest of the UK makes up this £15bn deficit. I watched some of the debate tonight from BBC Scotland and someone said after Independence we would be able to spend more on the NHS. This is just pure fantasy.

I respect your belief that things would be better but if the SNP are ever going to convince a majority of Scotland to vote for it, surely they need to tell us what the current situation is and what services will be cut, what taxes will raise and what borrowing will look.

[Getintaethem]

What I do know is we are faced with another right wing tory goverment for years who will destroy the NHS, show no mercy on the sick and disabled and when we are pulled out of Europe blame ALL our problems on Johnny Foreigner. Inflicting more austerity on the lower/middle class whilst rewarding big business.

NHS is a devolved matter for the Scottish Government. The rest of the UK can do what it wants with the NHS - wont affect Scotland.

Sick and disabled (welfare) is a devolved matter for the Scottish Government. Well it would be if the Scottish Government had not delayed taking control of it for 3 years.

Austerity - I still do not understand how people can both complain about the £1.7T debt while at the same time complain about austerity. With a current deficit of $15bn per year which is around 10% of our GDP we cannot borrow more (as an independent country). Our bonds would be trash on the market. To join the EU, deficits should run no more than 3%. Therefore, as an independent country we would have to cut services - that is the truth of the matter.

[Mason89]

if the SNP are ever going to convince a majority of Scotland to vote for it

Theresa May will do most of the donkey work. Not that you'll be changing your mind anyway

[57vintage]

I watched some of the debate tonight from BBC Scotland and someone said after Independence we would be able to spend more on the NHS

Ach, just graffiti that on to the side of a bus. That's how voters are influenced, it seems.

[Getintaethem]

Theresa May will do most of the donkey work. Not that you'll be changing your mind anyway

Yesterday Brexit was the big hope. Today May saying nah is the big hope. What will it be tomorrow?