O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[John2]

How's the snow, John? Flying out at the weekend.

Many said last year was the best snow in decades, and now many people are saying that while it started later this year it is even better than last. We recently had almost 100cm in 8 days including a period where we seemed to get fresh powder every night followed by blue sky days. Getting more fresh snow again tonight. Enjoy your trip.

[Exiletyke]

I think I confused you by going through a list of possibles further down the line. Let me stick to what I would like now to resolve the issue. To avoid the potential scenarios that are clouding things here.

I would like May to return back and negotiate an agreement with Corbyn that proposes a deal that involves a CU arrangement and guarantees minimum protections on environment, customer and employment protections. There will most likely have to be some further concessions on both sides but that 'softer' Brexit is what I would like.

Just to be clear, this arrangement would involve us leaving the EU. It's just that it looks quite different from the one you would like. But what I don't get is why you should seem to think that yours is more valid than mine, or any Leave voter who voted with a view to getting a deal.

But there are MPs in parliament that represent your viewpoint, and those that represent mine. Let's hope that they can get together and agree on something soon. If it doesn't look like what I would like, then so be it. I'll live with it.

But if all parties remain unable to agree a way forward, and Leave is taken off the table, how do we get out of it? Any suggestions?

"Leave" is taken off the table?

[ragingpup]

"Leave" is taken off the table?

Sorry, 'leave without a deal' is taken off the table. My bad

[Timbertop]

The Corbyn proposals are a bigger surrender and worse than the super soft Chequers deal. No wonder Tusk is now salivating at the prospect of these being adopted and there will be huge repercussions for Remainer May and the Conservative Party in general if she were to fall for this nonsense.

[Exiletyke]

Sorry, 'leave without a deal' is taken off the table. My bad

A Freudian slip of the highest order rp

[millmoormagic]

The Corbyn proposals are a bigger surrender and worse than the super soft Chequers deal. No wonder Tusk is now salivating at the prospect of these being adopted and there will be huge repercussions for Remainer May and the Conservative Party in general if she were to fall for this nonsense.

You see that's the issue here, you're in favour of a no deal brexit yes? that would massively affect everything we do and everybody in the country, i'm not altogether sure that you and your fellow hard brexiter's actual realise what the reality is. Every financial expert has already told us what to expect....

Corbyn's deal takes us out but gives us a cushion against the worst of it, amazing though how Corbyn always manages to find the blame though isn't it, i wonder why that is, given he's had no input in any negotiation, or the referendum, or anything else that this country has gone through the past 9 years...

[KerrAvon]

As I said above: "Personally, I would prefer May to align more with Labour's proposals published today, and have always argued for something along those lines"

That's what I think and always have done - probably way back in the history of this thread.

So you want to leave with No Deal. I want to Leave with a Deal along the lines of a customs union with environment, customer and employment rights embedded. Both would involve us leaving the EU. But which one is most valid?

Trying to align yourself with Labour's proposals probably explains why you are perceived as a ditherer with a view that 'meanders from one argument to the other'. Their strategy seemed to have been a wholly unrealistic one to engineer a general election. It has become somewhat muddy since that hope was (inevitably) dashed.

A deal with 'environment, customer and employment rights embedded' means accepting the jurisdiction of a supra-national court - the ECJ - as rights without a body to enforce them are meaningless. I agree that there are many different versions of what Brexit is, but I suspect that many people who voted Leave did not envisage the continued jurisdiction of a foreign court applying rules over which this country would have no say. Given that the extract from the (presumably left wing) blogger that you posted earlier with approval criticised the May deal for risking being subject to rules over which we have no say, its surprising that you have meandered to your view here.

[KerrAvon]

Sorry, 'leave without a deal' is taken off the table. My bad

The problem that you, many MPs and I suspect, the EU are ignoring is that no deal is most definitely on the table. Parliament enacted the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 which by virtue of sections 1 and 20, provides that we leave the EU at 11:00pm on 29th March 2019. It could be that many MPs regret doing that, but they did. Only one deal has the approval of the EU and parliament have said they don't like it. It follows that parliament have in effect - and irrespective of intention - voted for a no deal at the present time.

The EU say they don't want no deal with the sticking point being the backstop. As I mentioned earlier, refusing to shift means that they too are enabling a no deal and the hard border they say that they don't want.

Hopefully MPs and the EU are going to wake up to reality at some point.

[KerrAvon]

You see that's the issue here, you're in favour of a no deal brexit yes? that would massively affect everything we do and everybody in the country, i'm not altogether sure that you and your fellow hard brexiter's actual realise what the reality is. Every financial expert has already told us what to expect....

Corbyn's deal takes us out but gives us a cushion against the worst of it, amazing though how Corbyn always manages to find the blame though isn't it, i wonder why that is, given he's had no input in any negotiation, or the referendum, or anything else that this country has gone through the past 9 years...

Corbyn voted for the referendum (and a failed attempt to get one in 2011). How do you say that he had no input in it?

As I understand it, Labour are now looking for Brexit in name only.

[KerrAvon]

Many said last year was the best snow in decades, and now many people are saying that while it started later this year it is even better than last. We recently had almost 100cm in 8 days including a period where we seemed to get fresh powder every night followed by blue sky days. Getting more fresh snow again tonight. Enjoy your trip.

Excellent. Thanks.