O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[a123]

EXACTLY.

It didn't establish what leave meant beyond EU membership. It only established leave the EU. The ballot made no reference to leaving the single market or customs union.

Tell me where on the ballot we voted to leave the customs union. On the ballot.

You are forgetting the information pack sent by the government that said to make it clear a vote to leave means leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, a end to freedom of movement and a end to the jurisdiction of the European court.

If that wasn’t clear I don’t know how much clearer they could have made it.

[John2]

You are forgetting the information pack sent by the government that said to make it clear a vote to leave means leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, a end to freedom of movement and a end to the jurisdiction of the European court.

If that wasn’t clear I don’t know how much clearer they could have made it.

Was that on the ballot paper? No.

Lots of entities made lots of conflicting claims before and since.

"The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want." - Michael Gove (9 April 2016)

"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." - Boris Johnson (26 June 2016)

"Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation." - John Redwood (17 July 2016)

"The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history." - Liam Fox (20 July 2017)

[a123]

The other references are not official government policy the one I referenced was.

Are you seriously suggesting that the ballot paper should have had an essay against each box?

Both sides set out their position and both set out that a vote to leave meant leaving all of the constituent parts of the EU.

[John2]

The other references are not official government policy the one I referenced was.

Are you seriously suggesting that the ballot paper should have had an essay against each box?

Both sides set out their position and both set out that a vote to leave meant leaving all of the constituent parts of the EU.

OK, I just had a read of the actual leaflet and you're talking crap.

There is nothing at all in it which says voting to leave would mean leaving the single market or customs union, it says there would be lots of uncertainty and our access would be put at risk.

It highlights my point that with lots of conflicting information sources, everyone heard what they wanted to hear and formed their own version of Brexit in their head.

Here's the leaflet. Feel free to tell me where it "make(s) it clear a vote to leave means leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, a end to freedom of movement and a end to the jurisdiction of the European court."

It actually makes the opposite case on free movement, saying we might still have to accept it to retain access to the single market.
"Some argue that leaving
the EU would give us more
freedom to limit immigration.
But in return for the economic
benefits of access to the
EU’s Single Market, non-EU
countries – such as Norway –
have had to accept the right
of all EU citizens to live and
work in their country."

In fact, re-reading it, it's staggering how far the goalposts have moved inside people's heads from the reality of what was said at the time.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...for-the-uk.pdf

[the_idiotb_stardson]

whichever way you voted there is plenty of sense in this spoof.


https://youtu.be/-IL2XwSkFJQ

[Stovicmiller]

John with all the publicity surrounding brexit on the radio, TV, papers all the newsstations the political programmes before the vote did you not know what leave meant

[John2]

John with all the publicity surrounding brexit on the radio, TV, papers all the newsstations the political programmes before the vote did you not know what leave meant

No. Again, that's my point, and people keep accidentally making it for me.

Everyone consumed different and conflicting sources of information and views and conjured up their own idea of what leave meant.

There is no one unified vision of what the country voted for, that's the EXACT reason we're in this mess. If you think all the leave voters agreed with your vision you're mad! There will be communities where no deal is the dominant position retrospectively re-imagining the narrative at the time, there are also pockets where the leave voting majority support a soft Brexit, it's a massive tangle of conflicting positions that has completely split the country.

[Timbertop]

Always thought May's deal was a soft Brexit ! How much softer can we get ?

[WanChaiMiller]

Always thought May's deal was a soft Brexit ! How much softer can we get ?

As it stands there is no Brexit deal. Mays is an interim agreement to create the framework to negotiate the leave deal.

[wendun]

I have to agree with John. People are making things up as they go along. Not a single person of my acquaintance had a clear idea on these implications: they all (and I mean all) thought we would just leave, get a free trade agreement keeping the import/export position much as it was, stop immigration, stop paying anything to the EU and suddenly find that all our coastal communities had multi million pound trawlers and trained fishermen in the garage. And the "freeing up the UK to trade with the world" argument is rubbish. Any economist will tell you the constraints of the UK's poor productivity, poor R&D investment, shocking infrastructure, poor transport, limited airport and port capacity all mean we couldn't export any more than we do now. You guys are deluded.
What I don't understand is why so many guys on a football forum who don't export, don't import, don't employ people amd are never likely to encounter the various Europen Courts feels so strongly about this?