Another good signing

[AucklandRover]

Robin and Champs - I agree with both those posts.
I am reasonably happy with where we stand, although I hope Williams recovers quickly.
I have been saying on the Telegraph site, though, that I don't think we should write Mulgrew off.
Mowbray assesses the opposition very carefully. There will be times when someone with CM's craft is the right choice. In other games, we will need two hard men. There might even be some matches where TM judges that we need three at the back, and - if anything - that's what suits Mulgrew best.
I have my fingers crossed that Adarabioyo isn't too raw. I remember Grant Hanley being a bit of a headless chicken in his early days, and even Lenihan had that tendency at first. That's why I would have liked a 28-year-old!
Our attacking options are very encouraging, but I'm still uneasy about the defence.
I'd like to see Bennett play on the same flank as Nyambe to begin with, because he provides much more cover than the alternative wide-right players.
I've been speculating that Rothwell may now be played more centrally, as the link between the Dack/Graham axis and the midfield in a sort of 4-3-1-2.
The midfield three would be Bennett, Travis and Johnson or Travis, Johnson and Downing.
I think Armstrong, Chapman, Gallagher and Brereton should be saved as impact players in the early part of the season, and I reckon the two midfield threes I have mentioned would give us a little extra defensive security, but some forward drive as well.

[robinrover]

Has it gone quiet on the tosin deal
One minute he is nailed on signing, a week later and nothing.
Strange really.

[champs95]

I still think we are working on that deal.
But one thing I feel is being massively over-looked is we haven't spent anything yet.
I still maintain up to now, we have done some great business. But all we have spent, is what we sold.
We didn't spend our budget last season, and we are still trying to find a good deal now.
While it's all good & well saying we should get Scott Dann (eg) but people just ignore his £60k a week wages. We aren't the club to do that anymore. Now I know that Sam Gallagher took a pay cut to play for is. Because he knows deep down, we are the right club for him. And the wages he got at Southampton where stupid. So if he wanted to come play football, he would have to meet us half way. Which he did.
This is what happens when we sign Dann.
Dack walks into the managers office, and says "I'm the best player here, I want £60k a week". And the problems start there. Pretty soon, he's gone.
We simply, no matter what folk demand, won't risk our future.
But the fact remains, we are stronger than last season. And haven't spent a penny. If we want, we could now.
But we will wait to get the right defender, and another attacker in, if it's the right deal for us.
Experience cost big money. Personally, I think Cahill would be a top signing at our level. Not at £85k a week though! We need to be realistic. I don't think many are.

[AucklandRover]

I think a lot of people don't take the salaries into account - especially the knock-on effects you describe.
The downside of that is we would need to get a centre-half from a Championship rival (and, for obvious reasons, that's not so likely) or go for someone like Adarabioyo. I suppose the third and fourth options are the lower Divisions and Europe, but then an element of guesswork comes in.
When Hanley was mentioned, I was quite optimistic, because I thought he might accept a wage-cut, but he seems determined to fight for a place at Norwich. Fair enough.
I see TM is still talking about bringing in more youngsters, which I can't really fathom, because the obvious need is to bolster the defence with someone who has done the hard yards in the Championship or higher. I honestly think we should now be focused on developing our OWN U-23s.
One of the young centre-backs HAS TO stay - presumably Magloire - because the loan-business has not really worked out well for us, except perhaps in Hart's case. In this respect, I feel quite sorry for Wharton, because he has never had a decent run of games anywhere to show what he can do.
The thing is Champs, I don't think you can tell me to trust TM's judgements on new signings, on the one hand, and then, next minute, tell me Chapman, Armstrong and Davenport will never make it.

[AucklandRover]

Off-topic, I see that Arsenal have just paid 27 million for someone who is not even going to play for them this season! No wonder it's hard for Championship clubs to compete.
Given the fees we've seen for gambles in this window, I can't help feeling Trippier was a hell of a bargain at 20 million!

[champs95]

I think a lot of people don't take the salaries into account - especially the knock-on effects you describe.
The downside of that is we would need to get a centre-half from a Championship rival (and, for obvious reasons, that's not so likely) or go for someone like Adarabioyo. I suppose the third and fourth options are the lower Divisions and Europe, but then an element of guesswork comes in.
When Hanley was mentioned, I was quite optimistic, because I thought he might accept a wage-cut, but he seems determined to fight for a place at Norwich. Fair enough.
I see TM is still talking about bringing in more youngsters, which I can't really fathom, because the obvious need is to bolster the defence with someone who has done the hard yards in the Championship or higher. I honestly think we should now be focused on developing our OWN U-23s.
One of the young centre-backs HAS TO stay - presumably Magloire - because the loan-business has not really worked out well for us, except perhaps in Hart's case. In this respect, I feel quite sorry for Wharton, because he has never had a decent run of games anywhere to show what he can do.
The thing is Champs, I don't think you can tell me to trust TM's judgements on new signings, on the one hand, and then, next minute, tell me Chapman, Armstrong and Davenport will never make it.

Absolutely, every signing carries a risk. Davenport was a £200k no risk signing, that for that kind of money, will either work or not. If it doesnt work out, ah well, we move on. £200k won't change our horizon. Nor would he stop one of our own young lads coming through. As he doesn't play football matches.
Downing played for England. Villa, Liverpool etc ....he is a seasoned pro. He has always been a very good pro.
If you signed Milner, you know what you are getting. Downing will be no different. Although he wont play every week, he won't spend 99% of the season injured. And won't let us down. Conway never let us down, Downing is an upgrade of that. He wont play every week, but he will give us better options.
Chapman had never kicked a ball in the Champ. He was a low risk cheap signing. We got him, as Boro had looked at his injury build up, saw he had lost his pace, and decided to let him go. For about £500k. A low risk signing, that was worth a slight gamble.
Bradley Johnson has played in the Prem. And is a seasoned pro. And a far better player than Smallwood, or Evans. Again, he wont play every week, but he will give us better options.
We can always go back to Murphy.
Then again, we can always think back to who signed him. Steve Kean.
Who was advising him? Jerome Anderson.

Who is running things now? Not Steve Kean and Jerome Anderson.
For very Whitingham (a signing to fill up the numbers when we played in Div1 who was paid almost nothing and came for free) there is a Bradley Dack.

I'm not saying Armstrong wont make it. I am simply saying at £1.75m he isnt a huge risk signing. And I am not sat expecting him to improve a great deal. He is a limited footballer, who I am not seeing improve. I hope I am proved wrong.

Have a bit of faith the guys knows what he is doing. There is a risk in every single signing.
Look at the top 3 last season.
All 3 spent very little. The squads where very similar to the ones they had the previous season. Where all 3 finished around mid-table or lower. None of those top 3 spent much money.
None of them went into last season saying they had vastly improved? No large sums of money where paid out? Just the odd little tweak here and there.

At times I feel too much analysis is involved in football.
I remember insisting Dack (last season) was one of the better players in the division. And got told calm down.
Over the season, he turned out to be exactly that. Personally, I am looking forward to seeing how far we can go.
We are building a good, solid young side.

Take Graham out of the side for one second.
How old are all our attack minded players? On average.
I think we are good for the next 8 or 9 years. And have a huge amount of potential.
We are building a side around our best players. Not selling them, but building around them.

Yet all fans can do is focus on why we sold a keeper every single fan slated the majority of last season. Because he simply wasn't good enough.

He will keep around the best young players, like he did with Travis. To be fair, when it comes to doing the right thing by our young lads, I trust TM.

We are steadily closing in on Tosin. The height and physical presence he would bring to us, alongside the imposing stature of our new keeper, will make a HUGE difference.
Two 6ft lads something lads coming in. That will make a big difference to how we defend.

I agree with what you said about Mulgrew. Its too soon to right him off completely.
Put him in front of a proper keeper, who comes out and imposes himself on crosses. A stronger midfield in front of him. With better protection, I don't see why we can't use his guile and passing.

Every single game is taken in isolation. And TM picks a team to get something vrs that specific side.
Some weeks he will go with lots of cover. Where have to sit in and dig deep.
Other games will see a more attack minded side.
We have much more options than last season. I expect the spine to stay the same. But certian personelle will come in and out of the side dependant on who we play.
Last seaosn, we where very limited. We also got bullied too many times.
Sheff Utd, Norwich, Bristol City where all too clever. They played the ref, they played us.
Having guys like Johnson around will hopefully make us more street wise.

[AucklandRover]

Champs - I actually AGREE with most of that.
Where I have taken issue is when you have said that whoever TM brings in is more or less guaranteed to represent an improvement.
Given our budget, I just't don't see how that's a given.
I am really hoping Johnson and Downing work out, but both Murphy and Whittingham looked like good deals at the time...and look what happened there.
As for Adarabioyo and Walton, the fact that they are big is no guarantee of quality. Again, I am optimistic about them, but I am reluctant to be enthusiastic until I've seen them in action. I totally understand why it's been so difficult to complete signings, but I can't help being concerned about the centre of the defence - especially with Williams missing. That's why I was hoping for someone like Hanley.
Mowbray is bringing something different and special to the Club, but this is football - he could be gone by Christmas!
One final thing - we can't judge our own team in isolation. We have to remember what the other clubs are doing. There are a few quite impressive squads out there, and some certainly have better-looking defences.

[champs95]

I'm looking around at other clubs, and thinking......top 6 is a possibility. Brentford have spent quite a bit. But what on?
Remember, they opted for a keeper who conceeded 5 very poor goals vrs them.
Imagine the uproar if we spent £3m on a keeper from Brentford who had conceeded 5 poor goals vrs us?
We had the solid basis for a good Champ squad anyway. The key players are here still. It's just the odd squad player that (hopefully) will up the standards.
Will Sam Gallagher coming in mean Brereton & Armstrong have to up their game? And quality? Yes, absolutely. That can only be a good thing.

[AucklandRover]

I think we will score a lot of goals. If Travis and Johnson are at their best, we should be more secure through the middle. I think there is still a possibility we may be vulnerable to attacks down the flanks, and that is why I would have liked to see an extra guaranteed good header of the ball at centre-back.

[champs95]

It's horses for courses with TM. He looks at who we are playing and puts out a formation and players to suit. I think you are probably right about a slight variation aswell. That means Rothwell plays in a deeper more central role, behind Dack but in front of Johnson & Travis. Downing would give the same sort of cover as say Bennett, for the area we did get caught alot last season.
But we really do need a commanding big centre half alongside Lenihan or Mulgrew. Of course Williams will be back soon enough, but for this tough start and run of fixtures we won't have him. So we need to be well drilled & organised.
Final game tomoz hopefully see Chapman & Samuel get game time. Then a week of getting ready for Charlton next Sat, which I'm looking forward to.