O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[the_idiotb_stardson]

All this is a result of elite Liberal bigotry. "We are tolerant provided you have the right opinions"

[KerrAvon]

There are certainly hints of that on this thread, IBS.

[John2]

Brexit has been handled in bad faith by Brexiteers from day 0. I care about the consequences of people feeling betrayed by the system, but I care more about the younger generation who have been completely failed by it.

I believe if we leave it will harm the economy and young people will face the biggest costs. And all that mess will be for nothing because we will just end up rejoining after loads of damage has been done and the baby boomers are sitting pretty on their pensions and expecting millenials to fund their spiraling care costs.

I'm only saying that Brexit should happen as long as the people want it based on the facts as they are. If leave wins I would completely accept the outcome but its absoloutely right that the people get a say, not trying to force anything. Arguably if you want to avoid giving the people a final say because you fear they don't want Brexit then you're guilty of the same thing.

[Shark27]

Brexit has been handled in bad faith by Brexiteers from day 0. I care about the consequences of people feeling betrayed by the system, but I care more about the younger generation who have been completely failed by it.

I believe if we leave it will harm the economy and young people will face the biggest costs. And all that mess will be for nothing because we will just end up rejoining after loads of damage has been done and the baby boomers are sitting pretty on their pensions and expecting millenials to fund their spiraling care costs.

I'm only saying that Brexit should happen as long as the people want it based on the facts as they are. If leave wins I would completely accept the outcome but its absoloutely right that the people get a say, not trying to force anything. Arguably if you want to avoid giving the people a final say because you fear they don't want Brexit then you're guilty of the same thing.

What are the 'facts' John?

[John2]

What are the 'facts' John?

Well, we have a withdrawal agreement with the EU, so know we have the facts about exactly what that entails rather than a vacuum filled with fantasy promises.

[flourbasher]

Over a million of the leave voters have died since the referendum and nearly 2 million likely remain voters have entered voting age. Since February the majority of the electorate would have voted for Remain on the basis of demographic shift alone if not a single person changed their vote.

The mess of Brexit is out of the bottle no matter what, there is no happy outcome, but demographic shift is on the side of remain. We should at least ask the current electorate what they think of the actual deal on offer - that's the very definition of democratic. Many parties and politicians promised many conflicting things, why do the Brexiteers who promised £350m a week to the NHS get a free pass, but parties wanting to give the people a final say on the basis of actual facts get a hard time? Young people should not have to suffer the economic consequences of a protest vote serving a majority that is likely dead and buried

I think the Breiteer cause will fizzle out if a referendum shows the demographic shift is not on their side and we can put this sorry stain on our history behind us. A huge number of people will feel disenfranchised, and that is tragic, but there has to be a cost for this mess and it shouldn't be the young people who have to suffer any further. The baby boomers aren't leaving a very good legacy.

John.
You seem to be suggesting that the future generations will be better off economically by staying in the EU.
Some people think that but No one knows that as fact and it will depend on what happens in the coming years so everyone needs to take a view on what they believe.
Those that say we would be worse off by leaving the EU aren,t using all the facts simply because no one knows what they are yet.

I would also add that there are many reasons for leaving the EU and not just economic ones

[rolymiller]

Tory MP brands shouting protester an 'idiot'

BBC News Channel

Mark Francois
BBCCopyright: BBC
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.

"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.

Article share tools


Love it how these tory ERG members are getting ratty when things aren't going their way. Arrogant barsted which sort of sums that group up. So much for free speech eh?

[John2]

John.
You seem to be suggesting that the future generations will be better off economically by staying in the EU.
Some people think that but No one knows that as fact and it will depend on what happens in the coming years so everyone needs to take a view on what they believe.
Those that say we would be worse off by leaving the EU aren,t using all the facts simply because no one knows what they are yet.

I would also add that there are many reasons for leaving the EU and not just economic ones

You are right, we can;t know for certain the outcome.

If someone told me they were going to jump off a cliff I'd try to stop them.

They might insist they'd be fine and avoid injury, and that is a possible outcome. People have survived falling out of planes. While it's technically possible the overwhelming evidence points to serious harm, which I believe should be avoided rather than self inflicted.

The bigger problem here is the Brexiteers don't want to just jump themselves off a cliff. They want to drag the younger generation off with them safe in the knowledge they can deploy their pension parachutes.

[great_fire]

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I'm saying nobody changed their minds!?

You're fundamentally not understanding.

Let me spell it out. I'm saying remain has a majority on the basis of demographic shift but we have no way to know what the majority of the country wants now we know what the deal looks like unless we have a referendum. Asking the country what it wants on the basis of all the facts is the very epitome of democracy.

People died/ changed their minds 3 and half years after the 1975 referendum as well though so why didn't we have another one in 1978/79?

Why was there no referendum before the single European Act was signed in 1986?

Or before Maastricht was signed in 1992?

Or before the Lisbon Treaty was signed in 2007?

Why have the results of the 12 other referendums we've had been respected and enacted but not this one?

You don't fool anyone.

[Exiletyke]

John or should I address you as Kerr
You start your hypothesis by likening no deal to jumping of a cliff thereby setting the argument in your stone then go on to make the obvious conclusion that it would no doubt cause the jumper harm.Of course it would but all based on your ridiculous assertion that we are about to jump off a cliff.
Not so
& why this sudden fixation with the young?