O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m honestly not sure what your objection is. All party political points apart I’d say it looks like an example of decisive leadership rather than the dithering we have seen in this country.
For example...last week I went to two indoor events. The first involved temperature checks and the production of vaccine certificates for all as conditions of entry, but no rules about mask wearing. The second involved no checks at all but people being asked to wear masks throughout the performance which I, along with the vast majority, complied with.
Tbh I’m uncertain as to which I felt most comfortable with but I’d be happy to see everyone have to follow Government instruction over such matters as long as it is based on the science.
If people won’t get vaccinated that’s up to them...but please don’t expect to share the same enclosed air as those of us who have... seems fair enough to me.

Not sure you even listened to it RA.
My point was, a government has effectively stripped a percentage of a population of its rights. Its been done before. Apartheid.
The day you remove a citizens rights to choose and punish them, then you probably think the Chinese system is ok for you.
Instructions/ advice are one thing, but to generate a class of outcasts is quite frankly, disturbing.
So how far does our control and decisiveness go?

One minute New Zealand is doing a great job and a shining light of decision, the next the Stasi, have seized control. Are you happy with that level of decisiveness?

[ramAnag]

Tbh I thought I may have been distracted and missed what upset you...but I’ve struggled through the NZ vowels for a second time and I can’t find anything I don’t pretty much agree with.
Cricket and the All Blacks apart I’ll admit I don’t know much about NZ or their PM, but she still sounds like a decisive leader to me so I ’giss will have to difa orn this one’.

[swaledale]

At the point of Tory bashing peaks over COVID. New Zealand was mentioned on here a few times as a wonderful example of how to manage a health crisis.
Well it seems scary to me, how since then. A Prime minister has used the event to impose a regime straight out of Chinas rule book.
Look at the delight in her face, when agreeing that she has in fact created a new apartheid system. Wow, just wow.
Makes Johnson look passive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdMS...nzherald.co.nz

Johnson is passive thats the point! Most of the authoritarian actions and law changes that this Tory government are introducing is begin done by stealth, on the basis if its "in the interests of the Uk citizen", rather akin to how Hitler and the Nazi's gradually eroded freedoms without people realising until its too late.

Now here we have a leader, being absolutely open about what the reason behind the actions is, explaining themselves clearly. Yet your claiming this is imposing a regime comparable to china?

Hyperbole apart, it does show why many politicians use the false portrayal of issues such as immigration, knowing many unenlightened people will fall for it and vote for them, whilst in fact actually using these as a cover to actually introduce an authoritarian regime.

It seems to me perfectly reasonable to require people to be vaccinated in order to do certain things, if an individual chooses not to be vaccinated, then thats their right, but if that means there are certain things they can't do, fair enough, thats called a society trade off one benefits from certain things one is required to do - you seem to forget that for a society to function requires people to compromise and accept rules, or perhaps your of the libertarian spirit feels that the individual should be free to do, say or act however they want?

You would be the first to suffer in such a society!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Tbh I thought I may have been distracted and missed what upset you...but I’ve struggled through the NZ vowels for a second time and I can’t find anything I don’t pretty much agree with.
Cricket and the All Blacks apart I’ll admit I don’t know much about NZ or their PM, but she still sounds like a decisive leader to me so I ’giss will have to difa orn this one’.

Adolf Hitler was a decisive leader, Joseph Stalin was a decisive leader, would you be happy to live under wither of them?

Edit: oops seems Swale has gone for Hitler too - that twice we have posted same sort of thing in a couple of days! Im worried for my sanity now

[ramAnag]

Adolf Hitler was a decisive leader, Joseph Stalin was a decisive leader, would you be happy to live under wither of them?

No...but then that’s because I can distinguish between decisive leadership and dictatorship.

I thought you ran your own business...sure an ability to take and see through difficult decisions must be somewhere amongst your list of qualities...besides I thought you were all in favour of people being vaccinated, and compulsory mask wearing in your corner shop.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I do.........it is..................I am.....I am

Nothing in my observation above says anything different to that. Nothing suggests that I don't agree with the NZ approach either, although maybe if I were living in Aukland as a friend of mine does I would feel a bit pissed off.

[ramAnag]

I do.........it is..................I am.....I am

There you go then. You were just mischief making again.
Strange thing is...Tricky is objecting when he’s one of the few on here to have received his booster. Assuming that’s for health, rather than age, reasons he’d be exactly the sort of person who’s going to benefit most and feel safer as a result of the NZ approach.

[Trickytreesreds]

Johnson is passive thats the point! Most of the authoritarian actions and law changes that this Tory government are introducing is begin done by stealth, on the basis if its "in the interests of the Uk citizen", rather akin to how Hitler and the Nazi's gradually eroded freedoms without people realising until its too late.

Now here we have a leader, being absolutely open about what the reason behind the actions is, explaining themselves clearly. Yet your claiming this is imposing a regime comparable to china?

Hyperbole apart, it does show why many politicians use the false portrayal of issues such as immigration, knowing many unenlightened people will fall for it and vote for them, whilst in fact actually using these as a cover to actually introduce an authoritarian regime.

It seems to me perfectly reasonable to require people to be vaccinated in order to do certain things, if an individual chooses not to be vaccinated, then thats their right, but if that means there are certain things they can't do, fair enough, thats called a society trade off one benefits from certain things one is required to do - you seem to forget that for a society to function requires people to compromise and accept rules, or perhaps your of the libertarian spirit feels that the individual should be free to do, say or act however they want?

You would be the first to suffer in such a society!

Sorry Swale, I disagree.
She was asked out right, that "does she know she's creating a 2 tier society"?
Noy only did she answer "yes" bit the smile and delight in her face was very disturbing.
Sturgeon is actually very close to same reaction when she's English bashing.

[Trickytreesreds]

There you go then. You were just mischief making again.
Strange thing is...Tricky is objecting when he’s one of the few on here to have received his booster. Assuming that’s for health, rather than age, reasons he’d be exactly the sort of person who’s going to benefit most and feel safer as a result of the NZ approach.

RA, that is actually the very reason why. My immune system has been shot to hell and may never be the same again. But I know this AND CHOOSE to be vaccinated.
I didn't have to have it and would certainly not be happy if I was insulted/harrassed had I refused.
I still don't think folks have grasped my meaning here.
COVID has been a license for many people- governments/departments. factions to insert a controlling nature on the public.

I quoted the NZ prime ministers comments as they disturbed me, as someone enjoying her actions. The police thought lock down was wonderful, crime tumbled, the public had to comply to them etc. But be realistic here, we have GP's (not the one on here lol) being as awkward as **** over seeing folks/ dentists and many others since restrictions were lifted.
yet hospitals have done no such thing, why?

It's a power trip for many and COVID has presented an avenue to control. Well that was my point really.
Folks need to be careful what they wish for

My belief is that public are being pushed from all angles to see how far they will allow themselves to be pushed.
I don't just mean this country either.


NB* I regularly fill in surveys for Yougov.
I did one 4 days ago and it really was dancing around public opinion of GP's and the NHS.
Now it never tells you who issues these surveys, but it smacked of Government opinion for me.
If was a Tory basher , I'd have been convinced it was about deciding where to spend the NHS budget by priority.
(whistling)

[ramAnag]

RA, that is actually the very reason why. My immune system has been shot to hell and may never be the same again. But I know this AND CHOOSE to be vaccinated.
I didn't have to have it and would certainly not be happy if I was insulted/harrassed had I refused.
I still don't think folks have grasped my meaning here.
COVID has been a license for many people- governments/departments. factions to insert a controlling nature on the public.

I quoted the NZ prime ministers comments as they disturbed me, as someone enjoying her actions. The police thought lock down was wonderful, crime tumbled, the public had to comply to them etc. But be realistic here, we have GP's (not the one on here lol) being as awkward as **** over seeing folks/ dentists and many others since restrictions were lifted.
yet hospitals have done no such thing, why?

It's a power trip for many and COVID has presented an avenue to control. Well that was my point really.
Folks need to be careful what they wish for

My belief is that public are being pushed from all angles to see how far they will allow themselves to be pushed.
I don't just mean this country either.


NB* I regularly fill in surveys for Yougov.
I did one 4 days ago and it really was dancing around public opinion of GP's and the NHS.
Now it never tells you who issues these surveys, but it smacked of Government opinion for me.
If was a Tory basher , I'd have been convinced it was about deciding where to spend the NHS budget by priority.
(whistling)

We’ll always disagree more than we agree Tricky, but as long as it doesn’t become personal that’s fine by me.
We obviously disagree about the NZ strategy but I don’t see it as insulting people, rather giving them a ‘wake up’ call and frankly I wish our own Government would be more proactive over such matters

As regards other aspects of Covid I’ll happily agree with you...the inaccessibility of GP’s and the behaviour of SERCO/DDDC are just two such examples.