The curse of Orta

[WTF11]

You don't like any of this regime, we get that... but eh... they have achieved promotion, we are in the top league with massive crowds, which followed on from the massive crowds in the Championship.

But keep promoting the errors... if they're getting at least 51% of thigs right, which they have, then the regime you keep pulling up is pushing the club forward. Maybe you preferred the stagnant club that would jump to sell any player over £3M to first bidder

If we go down this season, we will be much better club than the one before this all started 3 years ago. Parachute payments, better players overall, better training ground... my list too could go on... but it will become the usual good/bad thread...

Thats where, not for the first time, you (and others, are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done, but as with all owners (just about) his record isn't perfect (he's human, how can it be). He got ER back, very good. He brought in Kinnear, who has his faults as we all do, but whos heart I believe is in the right place, also good. He brought in Orta, well two out of three aint bad, so the song goes. He made up for that faux pas by getting Bielsa, and the rest, (up to press) as they say, is history.

Massive crowds have next to **** all to do with ANY owner. we topped the attendance stats when we were in League 1 never mind the Championship, and many Championship clubs looked at our figures with awe and jealousy, as did many PL clubs when we were promoted back to the second tier. If you don't know that then you have no right to call yourself a Leeds supporter. The fans have and I dearly hope will remain the lifeblood of the club, I just wish the owners (all of them) were worthy of the core support this club has enjoyed over decades.

The "regime I keep pulling up" is no less capable of pi55ing money away than those that preceded it, there is just a lot more to be pi55ed away, and there are those in the upper echelons who appear not to care (apart from crying the odd few crocodile tears, when they think that their hallowed existence in the PL might just be extended, no thanks to their efforts). "Pushing the club forward" is not equitable with a situation where we got found out, we failed to invest in order to counter the opposition in our second season of the PL, yet all who post here could see it was required. The "investments" the club HAS made are questionable to say the least (one standout amongst over £70m of expenditure is NOT a satisfactory for a newly promoted club in the PL).

As for the prospects if we get relegated, not sure what you have been smoking but if you want to understand where we will be, you should stop. We will probably get around £60m in parachute payments, we will lose money on just about every player (including Raphina, given the reduced cost of his release clause (another master stroke by our commercial management aka Orta)), we will see Meslier, Raphina, James, Struijk, Phillips, Gelhardt, Bate, Summerville, Crysenco (not sure if I spelt that right, but you get the drift), and any others who have talent and potential, exit stage left. We will be left with those "better players overall", such as Roberts, Rodrigo, James, Cooper, Koch, Llorente, Dallas (unfortunately, wish he could look forward to better), and please don't think there will be a 49-ers charger coming over the hill, they won't exercise any option to buy the remaining shares from Radrizzani and he won't be able to give them away to anyone else

And there is little point having the most prestigious training ground in the Championship, if you have a squad of has-beens and never-weres to stock it.

(And they AREN'T getting 51% of their decisions right, if they were we wouldn't be in a relegation scrap).

Survival in the PL is a MUST, there is no other way forward.

[Orgoner]

SO, if we pay the fee for JKA, is he our player? In the squad?

Nope.

[WTF11]

Would we? Could you tell me the last time pre-orta we were better off? Just out of interest as well because clearly you have experience of this at LUFC, who were these great people in management at the club you aspire for Orta to be?

It is bloody exhausting, guy has done a good job, he cares and wants to do well. Everyone makes mistakes and its incredibly easy to sit behind a computer and act like you know better when in reality if you had half the responsibilty that guy has you'd crumble under the pressure.

Just for fun, please tell me the list of 'failures' and before you start if you are going to list players (which is a nonsense as his success is based on where we are, if he was so bad we'd not be in the PL anyway) I want to see a person in a similiar position whereby you compare his success/failures vs another at another club, if you can't don't reply.

Ok, to answer each point as best I can. First, I have no experience of any managerial responsibility at LUFC, as I'm sure you are aware. I do have a reasonable amount of experience creating effective project delivery teams working nationally and internationally to delivery complex new services and systems that millions of people use every day. That required the specification of skill sets, identification of resources to take forward the various aspects of project delivery, recruitment of those resources, as well as implementing suitable controls to manage the financial welfare of projects with capex and opex budgets in the hundreds of millions. Bit like creating a professional football team, in a way, just more difficult.

As to being "better off". It depends to an extent on what you mean by better off, and my comment was primarily relating to the clubs finances, but there are, as I said, "many respect" that go to make up "better off". There have been periods in the clubs history when we were better off than we are now. We were better off under Mr Silver, but that's going back some time, (even though the period of being "better off" was of some duration). We were better off in the immediate pre-PL years, although clearly that prosperity and success was at the heart of the disaster that was Ridsdales strategy.

How do you know how hard the job is? Simplistically, he has two short windows of opportunity where players can be acquired and sold. For the rest of the year he has to work with the rest of the footballing team to establish who those players should be, where there are gaps that the manager/coach has identified that may (or may not) be filled. Resource management, it's neither rocket science, nor should it be exhausting. The following article shows that it can be done, and clubs can succeed spectacularly, with the right DoF;

https://www.goal.com/en/news/what-is...j1irjue09n4eog

Back to the responsibilities (which are mentioned in the article, and give a good idea as to what Orta is likely to be responsible for), I've had MUCH greater responsibilities in the projects I have delivered, and done so consistently over a period of nearly 3 decades. I know of what I speak, hence why I find the dismal performance of the LUFC DoF so disappointing. I suspect he is paid a great deal more than I ever was (and more than most who post here I'm sure). You're absolutely right, we all make mistakes, but the crucial ability is to learn from them. Orta has failed miserably to do so, and not just at LUFC. He was dismissed from his role at Boro for a reason, he wasn't very good at his job!

And the query in your last paragraph is based on a patently false/flawed premise. Orta is NOT the reason we are in the PL, he is simply a part of the machine that made that happen, and given that the squad (and more particularly, the players who made the greatest number of appearances during the season we got promotion) were in place BEFORE he arrived, his contribution to that immense success is limited to bringing Bamford to the club (important yes, but one player of significance in a period of employment that started in 2017 isn't a great track record (Again, see some of the comments in the article regarding how many players might be expected to be replaced per season).

As for names of DoFs in successful clubs (taken from the article, just to be "objective");

Manchester City DoF is Txiki Begiristain
Sevilla DoF is Ramon Rodriguez Verdejo
Cruzeiro and Palmeiras DoF was Alexandre Mattos
Chelsea DoF is Michael Emenalo


And an example of a DoF that is a closer parallel to Orta (again, taken from the article, so hopefully you would accept the objectivity);

Damien Comolli, was DoF at a number a clubs including Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and Saint-Etienne, now working as director of football at Turkish club Fenerbahce. Apparently he was appointed at Liverpool shortly after the Fenway Sports Group takeover. Comolli's spell saw him sign players based heavily on statistical analysis, which led to money being splurged on players such as Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam. Sound familiar?

He was sacked having "wasted money" on Jordan Henderson. Again, sounds familiar (at least the "wasting money" comment from his employer).

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Thats where, not for the first time, you (and others, are wrong.

Don’t fall into the trap of believing one’s own hubris!

[WTF11]

Don’t fall into the trap of believing one’s own hubris!

The following statement (which you paraphrase) has nothing to do with hubris, or anything else to do with my opinions or capabilities, it's a simple statement of fact, which you would see if you read and understood it.

"That's where, not for the first time, you (and others), are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done,...."

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

The following statement (which you paraphrase) has nothing to do with hubris, or anything else to do with my opinions or capabilities, it's a simple statement of fact, which you would see if you read and understood it.

"That's where, not for the first time, you (and others), are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done,...."

Oh I fully understood it - you were asserting you were right and anyone else who disagreed was wrong.

I suppose it’s slightly more civil that the old retort of insulting anyone who disagreed with you - so progress of sorts.

[WTF11]

Oh I fully understood it - you were asserting you were right and anyone else who disagreed was wrong.

I suppose it’s slightly more civil that the old retort of insulting anyone who disagreed with you - so progress of sorts.

For a supposedly bright bloke you seem to have difficulty understanding plain english.

In his post, WS stated "You don't like any of this regime.....". In that, he is factually wrong, as is anyone else who shares that opinion. That's not a subject of debate, it's just plain wrong, because I DO like some of what this "regime" has done, as I stated further on in post#11. So no, I wasn't "asserting I was right and anyone else who disagreed was wrong", I was correcting a factual inaccuracy. If you can't understand THAT then there's not much point trying to explain further.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Au contraire - you were clearly stating someone was wrong and anyone who agreed with them too - you can twist it how you like and throw in insults too - but that statement and intent was very clear.

I have never claimed to be intelligent or otherwise and I take all posts as I find them.

It’s funny how thin skinned you can be at times.

[whitestomper45]

It's St Patrick's Day today our patron Saint. In America they celebrate St Patty's Day, i think in homage to some burger flipper... best wishes to all particularly those from this Isle. So am not going to get into tit tat tit talk.

But briefly, our average attendance 2015/16 the year befor AR arrived our average attendance was 22446 and for the previous 10 years had been mostly hovering around 23000, it was big news when the upper east stand would be open on match days. If we lose money on players (as many clubs have in their attempt to get to the top4, we will still have more money than wehen we started this era, and importantly far more backing in terms of money, no longer a basket case club, with point deductions and only attracting backers who want to asset strip this club.

[WTF11]

Au contraire - you were clearly stating someone was wrong and anyone who agreed with them too - you can twist it how you like and throw in insults too - but that statement and intent was very clear.

I have never claimed to be intelligent or otherwise and I take all posts as I find them.

It’s funny how thin skinned you can be at times.

You're simply not worth bothering with.