Mourinho - lengthy ban required?

[MadAmster]

A ref will usually arrive 2 hours before kick off. 2 hour drive to the ground (it's a guess) and 2 hours back. The match itself, including half time and injury time, that's another 2 hours (almost). Time to write and submit his match report, probably another hour. That's 9 hours not including his post match shower....

Let's take Lee Swabey who reffed our last home game of the season (Pompey). He lives in Devon. The last 10 games in which he officiated last season (5 as ref and 5 as 4th official) were at, in chronological order: Crawley, Luton, Cambridge, Cardiff, Rochdale, Bristol Rovers, Bristol City, Derby, Shrewsbury and Birmingham. Average 2 hour drive?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Perhaps a long drive but actually most people don't get paid to travel to work, so why should refs? My past "9 to 5" jobs always involved a commute of an hour or so each way which was never paid.

I don't see refs joining the WFH movement though, although perhaps VAR refs could

[ramAnag]

Perhaps a long drive but actually most people don't get paid to travel to work, so why should refs? My past "9 to 5" jobs always involved a commute of an hour or so each way which was never paid.

I don't see refs joining the WFH movement though, although perhaps VAR refs could

Obviously you’re right, GP...most people don’t get paid to travel to work...however I certainly used to benefit from a mileage allowance where home visits, cluster meetings, and other professional meetings were concerned. The logic being that if I chose to live a fifty mile round trip from work that was up to me but if my responsibilities involved driving x miles from work several times a week I needed to be ‘compensated’. I guess it’s the same with referees...yes they can earn their retainer from home or a nearby gym, but it’s easy to imagine them having to drive many hundreds of miles a week if officiating at two matches and they should surely receive recompense for that.

[MadAmster]

No fixed work place as the reason? Portsmouth today, Carlisle tomorrow. GP is being a tad shortsighted, probably on purpose.

On a match day they will arrive at the ground, be greeted by a committee member/director. Be given refreshment. Have a pre game meeting with his fellow officials. Get changed, do a warm up. Cool down after the game. There's far more to it than just 2 x 45 minutes plus injury time.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Obviously you’re right, GP...most people don’t get paid to travel to work...however I certainly used to benefit from a mileage allowance where home visits, cluster meetings, and other professional meetings were concerned. The logic being that if I chose to live a fifty mile round trip from work that was up to me but if my responsibilities involved driving x miles from work several times a week I needed to be ‘compensated’. I guess it’s the same with referees...yes they can earn their retainer from home or a nearby gym, but it’s easy to imagine them having to drive many hundreds of miles a week if officiating at two matches and they should surely receive recompense for that.

Agree that if you travel on work during work hours then your travel costs will be picked up by employer, but we are talking remunerated hours here, not mileage / recoverable expenses. If you drove to see a parent after school hours finished, say 3-30, would you get paid overtime to drive back home after that meeting ended at, say 5pm?

Perhaps the answer to this lies in the question "do they get paid 45p a mile expenses to cover the travel costs" or is it down to them. If the former you could argue that travelling time is working time. If down to them, then travel time is not working time.

[ramAnag]

Agree that if you travel on work during work hours then your travel costs will be picked up by employer, but we are talking remunerated hours here, not mileage / recoverable expenses. If you drove to see a parent after school hours finished, say 3-30, would you get paid overtime to drive back home after that meeting ended at, say 5pm?

Perhaps the answer to this lies in the question "do they get paid 45p a mile expenses to cover the travel costs" or is it down to them. If the former you could argue that travelling time is working time. If down to them, then travel time is not working time.

No such thing as ‘overtime’ in teaching, not even for school trips/expeditions when you’re effectively working 24 hrs per day and receive not a penny more.
In my case if I had to travel, for instance, five miles in the ‘wrong’ direction to make a home visit after school then I’d have claimed ten miles of mileage. If, on the other hand, I’d driven to any sort of meeting five miles in the direction of my home after school hours then I was honest enough not to claim anything.
Where my honesty was sometimes compromised was in the case of a particularly difficult pupil who lived about five miles from school in the direction of my home and I have to admit that it wasn’t unknown for a visit to that particular family to often take place about 2.30 on a Friday afternoon. Never any mileage claim though.

More on topic...I reckon it’d be hard to recruit referees if they weren’t recompensed reasonably for journeying from say Devon to Bolton on a cold and wet December night. I suppose accommodation expenses must come into it sometimes too.

[Geoff Parkstone]

No such thing as ‘overtime’ in teaching, not even for school trips/expeditions when you’re effectively working 24 hrs per day and receive not a penny more.
In my case if I had to travel, for instance, five miles in the ‘wrong’ direction to make a home visit after school then I’d have claimed ten miles of mileage. If, on the other hand, I’d driven to any sort of meeting five miles in the direction of my home after school hours then I was honest enough not to claim anything.
Where my honesty was sometimes compromised was in the case of a particularly difficult pupil who lived about five miles from school in the direction of my home and I have to admit that it wasn’t unknown for a visit to that particular family to often take place about 2.30 on a Friday afternoon. Never any mileage claim though.

More on topic...I reckon it’d be hard to recruit referees if they weren’t recompensed reasonably for journeying from say Devon to Bolton on a cold and wet December night. I suppose accommodation expenses must come into it sometimes too.

I'm not sure that the EFL has enough cash to compensate anyone for having to go to Bolton on any night, let alone a cold and rainy one.

But yes I imagine overnight expense claims are paid within whatever parameters are established....Travel Lodge not The Ritz!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Notice how I avoided falling into the trap of suggesting teachers didn't get overtime as they had all those extra days idling around in holidays to offset 😄

[swaledale]

Because the ref is on a retainer of 40k pa for keeping fit (in their own manner) and aware of rules related issues. His appearance money is for just that - ie 2 to 2.5 hours a game. I'm assuming players are required to adhere to a club training regime and required to attend place of work for a minimum numbers of hours a week - I picked 40 hours, if you tell me it's 37 I won't argue the toss.

It wasn't the 40 hrs I had an issue with its, the assumption that a ref gets paid purely for the 2hrs at a game and that translates into the hrly rate you quoted.

leaving aside the full time "elite" refs, if I compared say somebody working freelance which I used to do with a ref. A fixed sum for a "job" which might only take x hrs to actually do, but one includes preparation work - so fitness, completing paperwork etc for refs and while travel time might not get paid, if I drove for x hrs to and from a job, thats still x hrs connected to that job, when I'm not earning anything else. So if ones calculating an hourly rate then the sum paid to a ref per game must surely take into account, the time the ref spends preparing for and travelling to and from the match? Say 2 games per week on average, and each game takes on average 6 hrs of the refs time, plus 5 days of fitness training at say and hr a day so thats 12 plus 5, 17, add in say 3 hrs of paperwork, training etc and that 40k PA is paying for at a minimum of 20 hrs of that refs time and I'd say that was an under estimation. More of course if he or indeed she is at a 3rd game.

[ramAnag]

Notice how I avoided falling into the trap of suggesting teachers didn't get overtime as they had all those extra days idling around in holidays to offset ��

No trap...but I noticed. You’re almost back to your RR days. Keep it up!