O/T:- Palestine / Israel

[Magpies1959]

If any good is to come out of this latest conflict, providing it doesn't bring about full scale World war III, and going by the demonstrations happening in our capital city, it will prove that multiculturalism is a something that does not work, certainly mixing of religions, is a recipe for disaster.
We have the enemy within in this country, in ever increasing numbers. I fear for the kids growing up, life is going to be very different for them.

[OchPie]

going by the demonstrations happening in our capital city

There's definitely been a nasty element in the demonstrations and the police seem to be struggling to catch up with them. But from the people I know who attended the two most recent ones (from several religions and none), they say it was a very small minority, far outnumbered by peaceful protestors. I wish both sides would quit with the "from the river to the sea" language though, which just serves to make the other side feel unsafe.

If we're able to have mass protests without violence and intimidation - and that's whether they are for for freedom for Palestinians, for fox hunting, against Iraq, for or against Brexit, or whatever - I think that says something pretty positive about the UK. The instant that switches into aggression, incitement or actual violence, the police should act. It feels like the Met is getting the message.

[Old_pie]

I thought that might one of the reasons. Judaism does not believe Christ to be the son of God, they believe he is a false prophet as there is only one God. Hence you can't have one in heaven and his son on earth. But Islam doesn't recognise him as the son of God either, though they do recognise him as a disciple of God, born of a miracle, (the virgin birth). But as you say, there are half a dozen other religions who do not recognise Jesus. I wondered if the crucifixion itself played a role in this age old "dislike" of the Jews. Though Pilate, (a Roman prefect), was responsible for his actual death, it was the high priest of Jerusalem, (Joseph Caiaphas, a Jew) who gave him up, as he prob saw Jesus as an agitator causing unrest.

The Jews were persecuted and banished from their lands well before Christ.

[MarcusCole]

I am not as erudite as Hitchens but that was not even my own point. It was a significant shortening and paraphrasing of a longer passage in Hitch-22, which itself in no way blamed Jews for anti-semitism, as my words did not. The rejections - which were passive, not active; perceived, rather than pronounced - contributed to anti-semitism because of the irrational and hateful reactions of Christians and Muslims to them.

Since you seem to be arguing in bad faith, I'll leave you to it.

Its not arguing in bad faith when all I am doing is showing quoting you. It's not out of context, it is not misquoting, you posted it. They are your words posted in context, just because you don't like being called out for it doesn't mean it is bad faith.

[OchPie]

Its not arguing in bad faith when all I am doing is showing quoting you. It's not out of context, it is not misquoting, you posted it. They are your words posted in context, just because you don't like being called out for it doesn't mean it is bad faith.

More bad faith. It is not "all you are doing". You are assigning meanings to my words that they did not hold.

My words were "that undoubtedly contributed". Which it did, because of the way Christians and Muslims perceived it. You characterised my words, based on absolutely nothing, as "Jews contributed". Which is not what I said, and not what I meant.

I don't like being called out, no, but I especially don't like being called out for a bad faith reading like this.

[MarcusCole]

More bad faith. It is not "all you are doing". You are assigning meanings to my words that they did not hold.

My words were "that undoubtedly contributed". Which it did, because of the way Christians and Muslims perceived it. You characterised my words, based on absolutely nothing, as "Jews contributed". Which is not what I said, and not what I meant.

I don't like being called out, no, but I especially don't like being called out for a bad faith reading like this.

I guess you don't know what a bad faith arguement is. You seem to think it means disagreeing with you.

You posted antisemitic arguements stating the jews were contributing to their own problems just for being Jews and not converting. Now you are trying to claim you didn't actually mean what you posted. But don't forget

The lack of peace, and Israeli occupation, undoubtedly drives hatred and conflation of "Israeli" and "Jewish" (not helped as Israel's current government moves towards abandoning the secular nature of the state).

This shows context to original post how the Jews are contributing to their own problems.

[OchPie]

I guess you don't know what a bad faith arguement is. You seem to think it means disagreeing with you.

More bad faith. But since you're obviously struggling with the term, here's a good definition:

"Bad faith arguments aren’t “real” positions; they’re proxy positions people take for rhetorical purposes."

You don't want to discuss whether, as I quoted Hitchens saying, the perceived snub drove Christians and later Muslims towards hatred to a people who'd done nothing to them and were simply existing.

So you make up a crazy interpretation of the words and argue with those instead.

You posted antisemitic arguements stating the jews were contributing to their own problems just for being Jews and not converting.

Nope, that's your bad faith argument simply repeated. Not what I said. Not what I meant.

Now you are trying to claim you didn't actually mean what you posted.

No, I'm claiming I didn't mean what YOU posted. Still more bad faith.

But don't forget

This shows context to original post how the Jews are contributing to their own problems.

That is a very specific point about Israel. It has nothing to do with my criticism of Christianity and Islam. But once again you're not here to argue the content, you're just making a proxy argument for rhetorical purposes. It's boring.

[countygump]

The Jews were persecuted and banished from their lands well before Christ.

True. It seems a lot of Countries that they've settled in, they've been forcibly removed from, including lands they were traditionally associated with over the past 3,000 years.

[Big Bob]

So, has this site become a site that no longer discusses football?

[SmiffyPie]

So, has this site become a site that no longer discusses football?

This site has always discussed all manner of things, you know that.