Ot labour will get in

[kentmillerman]

Not being political but as Crash says .... Hoping the ex CPS head doesn't after he presided over those high profile pedo cases whilst in that post.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Exactly. Nothing will change until we get a democratic voting system. But no chance of that with both main parties not interested in democratic process within their own party, never mind the whole electorate.

Labour are worse than the Tories for undemocratic selection of MPs. Hardly any Labour MP standing down over the last couple of years, all of a sudden, there's a whole raft of them, right at the death, too late to have a proper selection process involving the members. Instead, the NEC parachute in Starmer-ite yes men/women with no connection to the constituency.

Morgan McSweeney... remember his name. He's the new Dominic Cummings and has Starmer completely under his control.

Make a note also of Labour MPs recently standing down. I guarantee that they'll be in the House of Lords this time next year in recognition of their "timely resignation".

I'm done with the Labour Party. Greens can have my vote.

The Greens can’t even decide who their leader is

[LesHiboux]

The problem is that for the best part of the last thirty years we've pretty much been governed by the same people, be they Labour or Tory. It's that North London, middle-class, liberal, Islingtonian dinner-party set These people are completely out of touch with ordinary folk, and neither they nor their families suffer the consequences of the policies they believe in. Mass immigration, net zero, child-grooming, a Police Service and a left wing judiciary don't touch them. Because they're wealthy. Many of these things were instituted by New Labour, so how anyone thinks that electing Starmer will improve things is beyond me.

[ragingpup]

The problem is that for the best part of the last thirty years we've pretty much been governed by the same people, be they Labour or Tory. It's that North London, middle-class, liberal, Islingtonian dinner-party set These people are completely out of touch with ordinary folk, and neither they nor their families suffer the consequences of the policies they believe in. Mass immigration, net zero, child-grooming, a Police Service and a left wing judiciary don't touch them. Because they're wealthy. Many of these things were instituted by New Labour, so how anyone thinks that electing Starmer will improve things is beyond me.

I would agree that there isn't a huge difference between the the instinctively centrist politicians like Sunak and Starmer, and their equivalent in Blair, Cameron, Major but there are important differences in outcomes, at least coming from the New Labour years which say invenstment in health, falls in waiting lists and community projects like surestart which when gone, those working with young people sorely missed. They aren't huge differences but if Starmer delivers the same small differences that Blair did, when compared to tory equivalents, and based on the dearth of alternatives, I'd go for Starmer. Whether he will deliver even those small achievements is a matter of wait and see, but compared with the conservatives, whom you know already what you're going to get, I'd still go for Labour.

As said earlier, you have the people on the extremes on the left and right that want substantially more, very different types of world views, but that's the problem with being on the fringe, is that you don't get voted in. So we're forever bleating on message boards from the outside.

[mygiddypant]

And an opposition leader that was born in London, lives in London, was Oxford educated and is a millionaire barrister

Deinitely got his finger on the pulse of the northern voters

Like Farage? The ex-Coutts banker.

[mygiddypant]

Farage will pinch as many votes from Labour as he does from Conservatives. If proportional representation existed Reform would have a huge impact and rightly so.

"and rightly so"? Why?

[mygiddypant]

I would agree that there isn't a huge difference between the the instinctively centrist politicians like Sunak and Starmer, and their equivalent in Blair, Cameron, Major but there are important differences in outcomes, at least coming from the New Labour years which say invenstment in health, falls in waiting lists and community projects like surestart which when gone, those working with young people sorely missed. They aren't huge differences but if Starmer delivers the same small differences that Blair did, when compared to tory equivalents, and based on the dearth of alternatives, I'd go for Starmer. Whether he will deliver even those small achievements is a matter of wait and see, but compared with the conservatives, whom you know already what you're going to get, I'd still go for Labour.

As said earlier, you have the people on the extremes on the left and right that want substantially more, very different types of world views, but that's the problem with being on the fringe, is that you don't get voted in. So we're forever bleating on message boards from the outside.

The trouble with a reasoned argument (on here) is that it is largely met with a deafening silence. If you don't mention Muslim, *****phile or immigrant they're not interested.

[Redshank]

The trouble with a reasoned argument (on here) is that it is largely met with a deafening silence. If you don't mention Muslim, *****phile or immigrant they're not interested.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The trouble with a reasoned argument (on here) is that it is largely met with a deafening silence. If you don't mention Muslim, *****phile or immigrant they're not interested.

A strange triad of problems, can we add brexit to make up the modern version of the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

[Back of the net]

The trouble with a reasoned argument (on here) is that it is largely met with a deafening silence. If you don't mention Muslim, *****phile or immigrant they're not interested.

Tbf 3 issues with one common denominator.