English identity?

[ramAnag]

As Jenrick appears to have tripped himself up horribly on this one and simultaneously speeded up the prospect of Farage becoming Tory leader some time soon, he has set me wondering.
English identity? What is it? Does it even exist?
What do we identify as making us quintessentially ‘English’? What enables us to say we are proud of being English?
There was a time when I could have answered the second question more easily but so many of the things I used to value - the NHS, our education system, our landscapes - have suffered recently that I really don’t know. Likewise, when I first went abroad, in 1969, I was healthily proud of being English. As a 15 year old I came from the land of the World Cup winners, of Bobby Charlton and the Beatles. On occasions now I feel ever so slightly ashamed.
Thoughts?

[Ramshank72]

Why is the adjective, "quintessentially" almost always succeeded by, "British" or "English"? I don't think I've ever heard it used in any other context.
My childish winge aside, I don't have an answer, other than that I couldn't attribute an identity to any other nationality either.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Agree RS. I am English by birth not by attribute. Our history, good or bad, our culture, arts, science etc decorate our past - but I haven't contributed to it so cannot take ownership of it with any legitimacy.

I do look around me and feel a sense of shame concerning the current generations. I don't think diversity has caused much beyond conflict, self centeredness and certainly the country is not a better place to live in given increasing crime, social dissonance and lack of community feel.

I guess that makes me a gammon in Swalespeak!

But actually I question the question: is there such a thing as English identity to define any longer? People claiming pride in being English are now open to widespread scorn (inferred in the OP) and/or had their iconography hijacked

15% of British residents were born outside UK and in London that figure rises to 43% (source Immigration Advisory Services) so is it any surprise the "English identity" has been lost, if it ever existed

[ramAnag]

Agree RS. I am English by birth not by attribute. Our history, good or bad, our culture, arts, science etc decorate our past - but I haven't contributed to it so cannot take ownership of it with any legitimacy.

I do look around me and feel a sense of shame concerning the current generations. I don't think diversity has caused much beyond conflict, self centeredness and certainly the country is not a better place to live in given increasing crime, social dissonance and lack of community feel.

I guess that makes me a gammon in Swalespeak!

But actually I question the question: is there such a thing as English identity to define any longer? People claiming pride in being English are now open to widespread scorn (inferred in the OP) and/or had their iconography hijacked

15% of British residents were born outside UK and in London that figure rises to 43% (source Immigration Advisory Services) so is it any surprise the "English identity" has been lost, if it ever existed

There was no ‘scorn’ inferred in the OP, GP. Just a little sadness at certain deteriorations. I’m still ‘proud’ of our theatres, our music scene our sporting achievements (in the context of us being a small country) though I accept I have no right to be as I have no ‘ownership’ of them. However the deterioration in our roads, our inner cities, our health service providers, our education service and the state of our rivers and seas is, to me, depressing and I’m fairly sure we can no longer be regarded as a nation synonymous with ‘fair play’…if we ever have been in our lifetimes. Not sure it’s ‘generational’…although, if it is, we ‘baby boomers’ are probably amongst the most guilty.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don't deny the actions of the baby boomers in the deterioration - they (hence I) are one of the generations that I feel are responsible for decline.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Deterioration of roads, NHS, education since the 50's? I'm not sure that allegation stands much scrutiny: since maybe the 90's I won't argue. All have suffered from too much demand and not enough supply or funding and have thus become stressed.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Fair play? Don't think that's been around for centuries- how fair was the larceny of colonialism; on the inhabitants of said colonies or the succeeding generations that have had the resultant reverse colonialism imposed on them? All in the name of religious conversion too. The biggest irony of all. Well and resource theft, including human trafficking. Was that "fair play?

[ramAnag]

Fair play? Don't think that's been around for centuries- how fair was the larceny of colonialism; on the inhabitants of said colonies or the succeeding generations that have had the resultant reverse colonialism imposed on them? All in the name of religious conversion too. The biggest irony of all. Well and resource theft, including human trafficking. Was that "fair play?

I can only agree…although those are not sentiments I’ve come to expect from you.
As for the roads, health service and education, I do remember, in the sixties and seventies, being told that our roads were much better than those ‘abroad’, always being able to get a virtually immediate doctors appointment with the doctor being willing and able to make home visits, and leaving college after five years with an overdraft of just £100.

Still maybe Mr. Jenrick was talking about some other aspect of ‘English identity’ in relation to his competitors. Like us he seemed unable to define it.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"The right to offend is essential to being British"

I tend to agree with this although I can't take credit for it!

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8cf...b80e1805887525

Re "perhaps not sentiments you'd expect of me" - ah, hidden depths 😄

Re road improvements - may I say one word: motorways. Specifically M25 which despite overcrowding has been a godsend for millions living round London who would otherwise have huge lorries going thru town centres and leafy rural lanes.

[Andy_Faber]

Still maybe Mr. Jenrick was talking about some other aspect of ‘English identity’ in relation to his competitors. Like us he seemed unable to define it.

The problem Robert Jenrick has in defining Englishness is two-fold:

firstly, national identity comprises hundreds of habits, opinions, beliefs, attitudes of minds, most to be savoured, some regretted, and some unique/almost unique, some shared widely. ThatÂ’s not possible to define in a crisp soundbite. I could write 10,000 words if you want but it still wouldnÂ’t get there

Secondly, any definition he did/does utter is bound to be derided by those who either seek to belittle him or his political position (example: yourself), who seek to diminish the importance of England/Englishness as a thing. GP intimates this in his first response

Although I don’t agree with use of the phrase ‘metropolitan elite’ I do believe there is a ‘collective’ who’s intention, either directly or indirectly, to make England as un-English as quickly as possible. I don’t see the same (yet) in the two other countries I spend a decent amount of time in