O/T:- Subsantial Reward Offered!

[BigFatPie]

My condemnation for the support of middle eastern dictators is no less sincere than when our politicians do it.

But you do realise that sometimes politicians have to deal with people they don?t like whereas people commenting on the internet (and Jeremy Corbyn) dont?

[Jampie]

My condemnation for the support of middle eastern dictators is no less sincere than when our politicians do it.

So, according to you, your own condemnation of such support is completely without sincerity since that's what you accuse "our" politicians of.

I mean, I'm not surprised or anything. Your illusory flirtation with principle lasted like a whole page there.

The part that really gets me is that you seem to've said that you give putin a free pass for being a disgusting little worm because he never claimed to be any better. Still trying to wrap my head around that one. I mean by that logic we'd have let Charles Manson avoid a prison term?

The thing is, Putin has claimed to be better on numerous occasions. It wouldn't be difficult to dig up a speech or six where he claims to be for and about principles that he's routinely broken. Or find a treaty he signed full of statements of principle that he's subsequently broken. I mean the guy promised to be about restoring Russia's glory days and he's screwed that pooch so hard it'll never walk again.

So really you're just giving putin a free pass to be a disgusting little worm because you want to.

Or if you don't you get chucked out a window? I don't know, maybe you're actually Russian all along

[andy6025]

Your illusory flirtation with principle lasted like a whole page there.

How have I flirted with any principle and then violated it? I?ve shown that western leaders make claims to certain principles and then break them all the time.

The part that really gets me is that you seem to've said that you give putin a free pass for being a disgusting little worm because he never claimed to be any better.

You almost hit the nail on the head.

All along I have argued, in this thread and others, that Putin has not done anything worse than our politicians. And yet we have sure got the knives out for him. Meanwhile our politicians get the actual free pass. By whatever principles you can espouse, you must by right consider all of our politicians disgusting little worms. Case in point; you were very upset that Putin supported Assad because of all the people he has killed? but you do not seem to apply the same for our politicians supporting MBS in killing hundreds of thousands in Yemen. Another case in point; the US and uk are seriously considering removing Al-Jewlani and HTS from the terrorist list. Undoubtedly they?re just waiting to see if he fits into their pockets or not. To reference your own analogy - how is that not like letting Charles Manson avoid a prison term?

The thing is, Putin has claimed to be better on numerous occasions. It wouldn't be difficult to dig up a speech or six where he claims to be for and about principles that he's routinely broken.

Ok, since it so easy? do it then! And even if you succeed, it still does not yet make him worse than our own politicians.

Once again - both you and our politicians claim virtue, and then not only violate your own claims, but use them as a stick to hypocritically beat others. Not only is it beyond absurd, but it is painfully transparent. I am even beginning to wonder if you are on the payroll!

[bule1]

Think that Sergei and Yulia Skripal and the family / friends of the late Alexei Navalny may have slightly different opinions of that.

[i961pie]

How have I flirted with any principle and then violated it? I?ve shown that western leaders make claims to certain principles and then break them all the time.



You almost hit the nail on the head.

All along I have argued, in this thread and others, that Putin has not done anything worse than our politicians. And yet we have sure got the knives out for him. Meanwhile our politicians get the actual free pass. By whatever principles you can espouse, you must by right consider all of our politicians disgusting little worms. Case in point; you were very upset that Putin supported Assad because of all the people he has killed? but you do not seem to apply the same for our politicians supporting MBS in killing hundreds of thousands in Yemen. Another case in point; the US and uk are seriously considering removing Al-Jewlani and HTS from the terrorist list. Undoubtedly they?re just waiting to see if he fits into their pockets or not. To reference your own analogy - how is that not like letting Charles Manson avoid a prison term?




Ok, since it so easy? do it then! And even if you succeed, it still does not yet make him worse than our own politicians.

Once again - both you and our politicians claim virtue, and then not only violate your own claims, but use them as a stick to hypocritically beat others. Not only is it beyond absurd, but it is painfully transparent. I am even beginning to wonder if you are on the payroll!

Not done anything worse than our politicians???? I can't remember our politicians murdering their opposition or locking them up on trumped up charges.

[drillerpie]

Think that Sergei and Yulia Skripal and the family / friends of the late Alexei Navalny may have slightly different opinions of that.

It's a ploy to stop you caring. If everything is the same, nothing can be bad. If nothing can be bad, or worse, you lose hope that anything can be good, or at least better. Then you just stop taking an interest altogether.

It's very noticeable in Russian propaganda - they don't try to convince people that Russia is good, because that's very hard to do. Instead they just spam the idea that everywhere else is as bad or worse.

If someone follows exclusively or almost exclusively pro-Russian or anti-western propaganda channels, obviously they are going to copy it knowingly or unknowingly.

This also explains why they will slavishly call an imperialist war a Special Military Operation, will call a democratically elected multi-ethnic government a Nazi regime, will call any criticism of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact Russophobic, and so on.

Hence Assange is the same as Navalny (even though one died in prison and one's alive and free).

Cuba is the same as Ukraine (except the USA never turned Havana into Mariupol or Bakhmut).

The UK giving back overseas territory against their national interests for ethical and legal reasons is the same as Russia scooping up cannon fodder from arguably the world's most repressive and inhumane regime and deploying them in a war of aggression (except it clearly isnt).

But hey, they're all the same. Western countries have done bad things, so Russia can do bad things now and it's fine. Never mind that we get to vote leaders out when they make mistakes, or have national debates about where we went wrong, and chanahe direction. Meanwhile Putin is in power until he dies and you go to prison for calling it a war, but hey it's all the same. Stop caring.

[andy6025]

But you do realise that sometimes politicians have to deal with people they don?t like whereas people commenting on the internet (and Jeremy Corbyn) dont?

Ok, that can certainly be a legitimate position - we must sometimes set aside our principles in order to advance our interests.

But then why not afford the same leeway to Putin in his support for Assad?

[andy6025]

Think that Sergei and Yulia Skripal and the family / friends of the late Alexei Navalny may have slightly different opinions of that.

Absolutely, as would the family and friends of the 16 year old American citizen Anwar al-Awlaki whom Obama ordered assassinated without even a charge or trial.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

[andy6025]

Not done anything worse than our politicians???? I can't remember our politicians murdering their opposition or locking them up on trumped up charges.

Then I guess you don?t remember David Kelly.

And here CNN, a very anti-Trump news station, agreeing that the charges against Trump are political and that he?d never had been charged if his name wasn?t Donald Trump (ie. an opposition candidate):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...mp/ar-BB1mgs9R

[andy6025]

It's a ploy to stop you caring.

Wrong!

It is a ploy to? wait for it? be consistent!

If you claim a certain set of principles, then stick to them.