Matchday thread: Rams v Sunderland

[Ramshank72]

I'd say cursed. We've got medical specialists (PW talked about the stats he receives through games on player yardage and such and how they dictate subs... Or at least try), so I don't it's poor conditioning or methods on the coaching side.
Too many with a paper thin squad though, it's a good time to reconnect with your faith of choice!

[SithHappens]

For the team we were able to put out we did well. Lars looks good i think he'll score a few.

Probably no Wilson or Brown now for a while, squad is threadbare. Hopefully ward can come in for Wilson

Big game Saturday.

[Andy_Faber]

PW needs to realise Jackson was a failed project and hopefully Salvesons arrival confirms this.

The fif**** minutes between Salveson and CBTs arrival and the keepers bit of cheating was the most exciting football I?ve seen since October (I missed the Portsmouth match). CBT and Salveson to start Saturday please

I am not Warne out but I think he needs to let someone else pick the team

[ramAnag]

PW needs to realise Jackson was a failed project and hopefully Salvesons arrival confirms this.

The fif**** minutes between Salveson and CBTs arrival and the keepers bit of cheating was the most exciting football I?ve seen since October (I missed the Portsmouth match). CBT and Salveson to start Saturday please

I am not Warne out but I think he needs to let someone else pick the team

Wilson will be a big miss imo. Ward as a replacement? He’s a liability defensively but can cross the ball as well as anyone, again imo, which could be a godsend for Salveson.

I really dislike this having to justify not being ‘Warne out’ nonsense. It’s not bullying or picking on him to question his ability. It just goes with the very well paid territory of being a football manager. He works in a more public, high profile occupation than most of us but if you genuinely want someone else to pick the team and, as MA has said previously, managers are no longer instrumental in choosing signings, and he’s not the coach then what is left for him to do?

Not as convinced by CBT as you. Thought he started well but either disappeared or made poor decisions in the last ten minutes. Probably confused by some of the late substitutions. I know I was.

[swaledale]

Wilson will be a big miss imo. Ward as a replacement? He?s a liability defensively but can cross the ball as well as anyone, again imo, which could be a godsend for Salveson.

I really dislike this having to justify not being ?Warne out? nonsense. It?s not bullying or picking on him to question his ability. It just goes with the very well paid territory of being a football manager. He works in a more public, high profile occupation than most of us but if you genuinely want someone else to pick the team and, as MA has said previously, managers are no longer instrumental in choosing signings, and he?s not the coach then what is left for him to do?

Not as convinced by CBT as you. Thought he started well but either disappeared or made poor decisions in the last ten minutes. Probably confused by some of the late substitutions. I know I was.

It is nothing but idle and largely misinformed speculation that Warne doesn't coach or set the tactics etc. Obviously he has other coaches who he works with, but this utter *******s about him is laughable.

I see fans questioning selection tactics every day, yet none of them know the issues the manager/head coach is dealing with. In Warne's case, for those who bother to read, its obvious that a number of players CBT among them are suffering knocks and injuries, the result has been that he is constantly juggling players according to fitness and availability and has been obvious from the start has not got quality replacements in the squad to cover for those injured.

The substitutions reflect this lack of depth and of course again the observing fan doesn't know whether a player is fully fit or suffered a knock its not always clear.

As for the signings issue, of course he is instrumental in them, he knows the type of player and the position required, the recruitment team then go out and seek those players that are available at a price the club can afford. The Cloughie days of scouting players oneself and doing all the leg work to sign them have gone but that doesn't mean the ultimate decision, certainly in Warne's case isn't the his!

Yes being a football manager is a well paid job with a public profile and yes fans have every right to criticise. But often that criticism is done without full knowledge of the circumstances a manager is working with and a lack of reality about the situation both financial and player depth a club is operating in.

I'd say it was fans unrealistic expectations that led Mel Morris to overspend and nearly led to its demise. But then football fans have always been over entitled and keen to criticise, with the freedom of not having to pay the millions required to operate a football club!

[ramAnag]

It is nothing but idle and largely misinformed speculation that Warne doesn't coach or set the tactics etc. Obviously he has other coaches who he works with, but this utter *******s about him is laughable.

I see fans questioning selection tactics every day, yet none of them know the issues the manager/head coach is dealing with. In Warne's case, for those who bother to read, its obvious that a number of players CBT among them are suffering knocks and injuries, the result has been that he is constantly juggling players according to fitness and availability and has been obvious from the start has not got quality replacements in the squad to cover for those injured.

The substitutions reflect this lack of depth and of course again the observing fan doesn't know whether a player is fully fit or suffered a knock its not always clear.

As for the signings issue, of course he is instrumental in them, he knows the type of player and the position required, the recruitment team then go out and seek those players that are available at a price the club can afford. The Cloughie days of scouting players oneself and doing all the leg work to sign them have gone but that doesn't mean the ultimate decision, certainly in Warne's case isn't the his!

Yes being a football manager is a well paid job with a public profile and yes fans have every right to criticise. But often that criticism is done without full knowledge of the circumstances a manager is working with and a lack of reality about the situation both financial and player depth a club is operating in.

I'd say it was fans unrealistic expectations that led Mel Morris to overspend and nearly led to its demise. But then football fans have always been over entitled and keen to criticise, with the freedom of not having to pay the millions required to operate a football club!

Hmmm, but you have been one of those fans who, before the recent injury crisis, was criticising (not unreasonably) all the manager’s chopping and changing.

Of course, you’re right, none of us know as much as the coaching staff about the relative fitness of individual players but I think it’s unfair to blame fans for the unrealistic expectations of Mel Morris. Morris fuelled those expectations himself, on the back of our near miss against QPR. Fans could hardly be blamed for believing him.

Thankfully we seem to be in safer hands with Mr. Clowes but at the moment we’re not a million miles away from where we were under Rooney and I imagine important decisions have to be made over the next week or so about how much we can spend to try and secure our Championship future and earn the investment which the owner is said to be seeking.

[Trickytreesreds]

If you have injuries etc you have to spend now. Even if its loans. Quality from a prem club if possible.
To drop out of the Champs now, will be a huge set back to ever getting on an even keel

[Andy_Faber]

Wilson will be a big miss imo. Ward as a replacement? He’s a liability defensively but can cross the ball as well as anyone, again imo, which could be a godsend for Salveson.

I really dislike this having to justify not being ‘Warne out’ nonsense. It’s not bullying or picking on him to question his ability. It just goes with the very well paid territory of being a football manager. He works in a more public, high profile occupation than most of us but if you genuinely want someone else to pick the team and, as MA has said previously, managers are no longer instrumental in choosing signings, and he’s not the coach then what is left for him to do?

Not as convinced by CBT as you. Thought he started well but either disappeared or made poor decisions in the last ten minutes. Probably confused by some of the late substitutions. I know I was.

Ward/Salveson might work. If he plays he HAS to play deeper than he has in the past though, his reactions as much as his skill let him down defensively

My own 'Ward Not Out' comment was to put my later comments into perpective not a defensive thing, I like the rest of us don't know what th job roles really are but a fresh perspective might help

Likewise we really don't know what goes on behind the scenes betweem PW and CBT, although I recall PW singling him out for criticism for his first possession last night, didn't hear PW offer any criticism of Jackson doing nothing of note all game. If CBT only has 30 minutes of 'form' in him, give hime the FIRST 30 mins, God knows we've seen enough non-producers this season it wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Any confusion about substitutions is matched in my mind by the starting line-up, which goes back to my earlier point

[swaledale]

Hmmm, but you have been one of those fans who, before the recent injury crisis, was criticising (not unreasonably) all the manager?s chopping and changing.

Of course, you?re right, none of us know as much as the coaching staff about the relative fitness of individual players but I think it?s unfair to blame fans for the unrealistic expectations of Mel Morris. Morris fuelled those expectations himself, on the back of our near miss against QPR. Fans could hardly be blamed for believing him.

Thankfully we seem to be in safer hands with Mr. Clowes but at the moment we?re not a million miles away from where we were under Rooney and I imagine important decisions have to be made over the next week or so about how much we can spend to try and secure our Championship future and earn the investment which the owner is said to be seeking.

Indeed I questioned the swapping round of tactics and whether that wasn't counter productive and I haven't said fans shouldn't be able to have an opinion or criticise, just that calls for Warne to go are IMO ludicrous and claims he doesn't coach the players or have an influence on signings not true.

With Morris, yes he made some bold claims, but also fans lapped it up without a moments thought as to how it was paid for, nor did they care. Now many are disgruntled because we aren't doing as well as expected. Unrealistic, it was always going to be hard on the resources Derby have and made worse by some very unfortunate injuries.

We don't need a change of manager we need some players in.

[ramAnag]

Indeed I questioned the swapping round of tactics and whether that wasn't counter productive and I haven't said fans shouldn't be able to have an opinion or criticise, just that calls for Warne to go are IMO ludicrous and claims he doesn't coach the players or have an influence on signings not true.

With Morris, yes he made some bold claims, but also fans lapped it up without a moments thought as to how it was paid for, nor did they care. Now many are disgruntled because we aren't doing as well as expected. Unrealistic, it was always going to be hard on the resources Derby have and made worse by some very unfortunate injuries.

We don't need a change of manager we need some players in.

Take many of those points and I hadn’t suggested that you (specifically) have said fans shouldn’t criticise.

There just seems to be an attitude that one is either part of the Warne Out movement or a die hard Warne supporter.

I for one am neither. I’m grateful for what was achieved last season and I recognise the bad luck he’s had recently with injuries. On the other hand I don’t find him especially inspirational, I don’t think he’s performed particularly well in the transfer market and results over the last three months have been quite dismal.

If he gets the push I’m not sure anyone could complain. If he stays and sorts things with a similar improvement to the one we saw this time last year then fair play to him. It’s just sometimes difficult to see how we’re making progress when, yet again, we’re likely to finish this season with a collection of loans who will need replacing for wherever we start next season.