PSR conundrum

[whitestomper45]

Clubs voted to extend PSR for a further year, there are 2 other possibilities to replace it

[Monaco_Totty]

MT I understand all of the points re PSR etc but given the large sums of revenue generated in the EFL and topped off with huge player sales revenue plus the share cash injection there must be something else in the accounts causing us to be worried I suspect as it makes no sense that Burnley and particularly Sunderland can spend such massive amounts and we relatively don’t.

Maybe there was the cash there but they’ve saved some for January.Just all a bit at odds with the messaging from the chairman.

This windows spending limit faced a combination of factors below, imo, including the remains*of our previous owner loans in place prior to our July 2023 takeover which is not easy to put an actual figure on.But all dosh ins & outs does appear ok.

Recap to 2023.
Prior to 49ers Enterprises taking majority control from Radz a major sticking point was** who actually was obliged to pay for what with regard to how would the burden of transfer investment be split & who would meet those future payments became an issue.

Rather than being seen to push Radz out 'prematurely' the 49ers Enterprises made it clear that it was ready to do the buy-out deal sooner. But they were aware of worrying 'financial-liabilities' waiting down the line, some comprising of future payments owed for transfers & they were not willing to pay quite as much as had been discussed initially which had valued Leeds at just under 500million.

The situation was complicated by the teams battle with relegation. In the EFL, 49ers Enterprises reckoned that Leeds would be worth closer to 150m rather than circa 500m based on the drop in revenue they would suffer.
At most they would only gonna pay just under 170m & were not prepared to finalise a takeover without relegation contingencies making the then Jan 2023 window very complicated.
Every transfer involved long negotiations about how precisely it would be funded. Orta obviously by then was of the view that a takeover was essential & he defo grew more frustrated with how slowly those negotiations were moving in his quest of his budget planning demands.

So a 'vacuum of leadership' developed over* Rutters arrival from Hoffenheim as Radz mooted the idea of taking Rutter on loan with an obligation to buy at the end of the season but 49ers Enterprises wanted a permanent transfer immediately, so a 'protracted' move was done for 30million by Orta.
Radz then favoured selling Harrison to Leicester as a means of raising around 20million but 49ers Enterprises preferred to retain him, so the move collapsed less than 2 hours before the deadline, despite Harrison being sent to Leicesters training ground just in case. 😳

The rest is history but some of your answers* may lie within there, for sure, not to mention complicated compensations arangements of* firing of Coaches & staff, too.

Recap to 2024.
By the end of June 2024, the squad cost was recorded as 280.8m which underlines the retention of big buck signings Firpo, Piroe, James & Rutter.

The accounts show the club impaired player values by 7.5m, adding to the impairment of 20.3m in the 2022-23 accounts.
Impairments generally point to failings in the transfer market. In layman?s terms, player X has a value of Y in the clubs books. The club realises they are never getting value Y back for them so they book an impairment, to bring player X?s book value down to something more realistic, ok.

Leeds still owed 187.5million in outstanding transfer fees as of the end of June 2023 between relegation and the first Championship season. The net transfer balance owed remained at 73m twelve months later at the end of June 2024, likely meaning more external funding will have been needed in this season.

Across this accounting period, the club received significant sums for Tyler Adams,* Sinisterra & Archie Gray, whose sale was included in this document. Gray, a player who came through our academy moved for 40million to Spurs. His exit represented ?pure profit? in accounting terms. Other sales for the likes of Tyler Roberts, Hjelde & Marc Roca did not generate meaningful sums.🙁

The total fees received for player sales was 69.1million, which translated into 33.7m of PROFIT !
For the players who left the club in this period, Leeds had originally paid a combined 139.2m for their services with the major disparity between what Leeds paid & then received for these players is 'telling' too.
Parachute payments in these accounts, for a first season after relegation stood at around 48m, 'tho. 💡

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

This windows spending limit faced a combination of factors below, imo, including the remains*of our previous owner loans in place prior to our July 2023 takeover which is not easy to put an actual figure on.But all dosh ins & outs does appear ok.

Recap to 2023.
Prior to 49ers Enterprises taking majority control from Radz a major sticking point was** who actually was obliged to pay for what with regard to how would the burden of transfer investment be split & who would meet those future payments became an issue.

Rather than being seen to push Radz out 'prematurely' the 49ers Enterprises made it clear that it was ready to do the buy-out deal sooner. But they were aware of worrying 'financial-liabilities' waiting down the line, some comprising of future payments owed for transfers & they were not willing to pay quite as much as had been discussed initially which had valued Leeds at just under 500million.

The situation was complicated by the teams battle with relegation. In the EFL, 49ers Enterprises reckoned that Leeds would be worth closer to 150m rather than circa 500m based on the drop in revenue they would suffer.
At most they would only gonna pay just under 170m & were not prepared to finalise a takeover without relegation contingencies making the then Jan 2023 window very complicated.
Every transfer involved long negotiations about how precisely it would be funded. Orta obviously by then was of the view that a takeover was essential & he defo grew more frustrated with how slowly those negotiations were moving in his quest of his budget planning demands.

So a 'vacuum of leadership' developed over* Rutters arrival from Hoffenheim as Radz mooted the idea of taking Rutter on loan with an obligation to buy at the end of the season but 49ers Enterprises wanted a permanent transfer immediately, so a 'protracted' move was done for 30million by Orta.
Radz then favoured selling Harrison to Leicester as a means of raising around 20million but 49ers Enterprises preferred to retain him, so the move collapsed less than 2 hours before the deadline, despite Harrison being sent to Leicesters training ground just in case. 😳

The rest is history but some of your answers* may lie within there, for sure, not to mention complicated compensations arangements of* firing of Coaches & staff, too.

Recap to 2024.
By the end of June 2024, the squad cost was recorded as 280.8m which underlines the retention of big buck signings Firpo, Piroe, James & Rutter.

The accounts show the club impaired player values by 7.5m, adding to the impairment of 20.3m in the 2022-23 accounts.
Impairments generally point to failings in the transfer market. In layman?s terms, player X has a value of Y in the clubs books. The club realises they are never getting value Y back for them so they book an impairment, to bring player X?s book value down to something more realistic, ok.

Leeds still owed 187.5million in outstanding transfer fees as of the end of June 2023 between relegation and the first Championship season. The net transfer balance owed remained at 73m twelve months later at the end of June 2024, likely meaning more external funding will have been needed in this season.

Across this accounting period, the club received significant sums for Tyler Adams,* Sinisterra & Archie Gray, whose sale was included in this document. Gray, a player who came through our academy moved for 40million to Spurs. His exit represented ?pure profit? in accounting terms. Other sales for the likes of Tyler Roberts, Hjelde & Marc Roca did not generate meaningful sums.🙁

The total fees received for player sales was 69.1million, which translated into 33.7m of PROFIT !
For the players who left the club in this period, Leeds had originally paid a combined 139.2m for their services with the major disparity between what Leeds paid & then received for these players is 'telling' too.
Parachute payments in these accounts, for a first season after relegation stood at around 48m, 'tho. 💡

Interesting tracking the summary of the accounts but the challenge is that these don’t directly correlate to the PSR submissions et and what counts and what is deductible etc. .

Think the 281m squad figure you cite might be typo.

Would love to properly have insight into how we dealt with the JKA costs and also what if any loan fees we got from the loans post relegation.

Not getting fees for the likes of Koch, Firpo, Bambi etc won’t have helped in PSR terms.

I guess the danger is that you can get into a PSR viscous circle in that you spend 150m in year 1 and spend over 5 years and do the same in year 2, 3 and 4 by year 4 you sti have a total of 120m for that year and the next which if you are struggling or get relegated means you have that debt for several years.

[Monaco_Totty]

Interesting tracking the summary of the accounts but the challenge is that these don’t directly correlate to the PSR submissions et and what counts and what is deductible etc. .

Think the 281m squad figure you cite might be typo.

Would love to properly have insight into how we dealt with the JKA costs and also what if any loan fees we got from the loans post relegation.

Not getting fees for the likes of Koch, Firpo, Bambi etc won’t have helped in PSR terms.

I guess the danger is that you can get into a PSR viscous circle in that you spend 150m in year 1 and spend over 5 years and do the same in year 2, 3 and 4 by year 4 you sti have a total of 120m for that year and the next which if you are struggling or get relegated means you have that debt for several years.

That figure used by me regarding squad valuation was sourced from The Athletic, French L' Equipe & also NY Times circa April 2025 on then available 'released June 30th 2024 PSR period squad value', so no typo H.




Following a season of significant managerial instability in 22/23, when the club went through no fewer than 3 permanent head coaches, the board opted for proven Championship promotion coaching leadership aka Daniel Farke, you will be happy to recall. 😂

Important to remember the Leeds accounting period runs to June 30th so dates matter for PSR figures from prior July 1st !

Example in Rutter who was bought from Hoffenheim in Jan 2023 circa 30 million, rising to 36 million via add-ons.

Leeds sold Rutter to Brighton on August 19, 2024 for a 'reported' club-record fee of 40 million on a 5 year contract.

That transfer was a major boost to the 49ers into picking up the pieces of those long-standing transfer payments which got uncovered in those 2024?s accounts that actually revealed that 190million needing to be paid off over the coming seasons.
This is my only red flag explanation to recent window shenanigans, imo, with all info publicly available.

Angus, Orta & Rangers scenarios left a mark for sure on the club but a reading of the
September 2024 transfer article, below, I suggest we now focus on the here & now & enjoy the moment or hopefully moments to come, H. 👍

https://www.leedsallover.com/reveale...io-rutter-exit

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

That figure used by me regarding squad valuation was sourced from The Athletic, French L' Equipe & also NY Times circa April 2025 on then available 'released June 30th 2024 PSR period squad value', so no typo H.




Following a season of significant managerial instability in 22/23, when the club went through no fewer than 3 permanent head coaches, the board opted for proven Championship promotion coaching leadership aka Daniel Farke, you will be happy to recall. 😂

Important to remember the Leeds accounting period runs to June 30th so dates matter for PSR figures from prior July 1st !

Example in Rutter who was bought from Hoffenheim in Jan 2023 circa 30 million, rising to 36 million via add-ons.

Leeds sold Rutter to Brighton on August 19, 2024 for a 'reported' club-record fee of 40 million on a 5 year contract.

That transfer was a major boost to the 49ers into picking up the pieces of those long-standing transfer payments which got uncovered in those 2024?s accounts that actually revealed that 190million needing to be paid off over the coming seasons.
This is my only red flag explanation to recent window shenanigans, imo, with all info publicly available.

Angus, Orta & Rangers scenarios left a mark for sure on the club but a reading of the
September 2024 transfer article, below, I suggest we now focus on the here & now & enjoy the moment or hopefully moments to come, H. 👍

https://www.leedsallover.com/reveale...io-rutter-exit

Cheers but still don’t understand the squad cost of 280 m from the Athletic.

For that season sales would outweigh purchases (Gray etc) and the top wage in the EFL was Bambi’s 40k PW. Assuming 20 players were on 40kpw that is still only wages of 40m but we know the total is lower.

Yes there might be bonuses to play of about 20m.

That they means that the global amortised figure owed for last year must be around 220m which surely can’t be right noting we got 40m for KP and 50m for Raph not that long ago too.

Wonder if they took a one off hit with the JKA and other hidden surprises from the Radz era as otherwise doesn’t add up.

Think the Athletic needs to explain what that phrase means and how they got there 😎😎

[whitestomper45]

An article on BBC Sport? highlights Real Madrid?s ability to get some of the big stars from other teams to run down their contracts, then sign them on a free?when you?re at the top table you do what you want

[Monaco_Totty]

Cheers but still don’t understand the squad cost of 280 m from the Athletic.

For that season sales would outweigh purchases (Gray etc) and the top wage in the EFL was Bambi’s 40k PW. Assuming 20 players were on 40kpw that is still only wages of 40m but we know the total is lower.

Yes there might be bonuses to play of about 20m.

That they means that the global amortised figure owed for last year must be around 220m which surely can’t be right noting we got 40m for KP and 50m for Raph not that long ago too.

Wonder if they took a one off hit with the JKA and other hidden surprises from the Radz era as otherwise doesn’t add up.

Think the Athletic needs to explain what that phrase means and how they got there 😎😎

Mmm, whatever gotta get the results in now, for sure, but jeez we got through lots of staff.

Good to see Adam Pope has been reading this thread too & printed his careful summary on matters, after 3pm today. 😂

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/a...s/cy7p68x466vo

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Mmm, whatever gotta get the results in now, for sure, but jeez we got through lots of staff.

Good to see Adam Pope has been reading this thread too & printed his careful summary on matters, after 3pm today. 😂

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/a...s/cy7p68x466vo

Suspect part of the challenge is the players who left on frees - Koch, Firpo, Bambi etc. looks like ?Meslier will now too and having players who we can?t actually sell - Aaronson, Wober, Harrison etc which means we are carrying more liabilities which we can?t offset.