OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

I
The days when people voted at general elections on party lines have gone, sure there is the hard core on the left or right, but there is a reason why both parties have been centrist over the past few decades!

People tend to vote for what they perceive is in their own self interests, but as as has been pointed out many votes, unless your in a marginal constituency, dont count and never will.

The point being though is that we elect governments to make major decisions, we or at least a part of the UK people may have voted to leave the EU, but it will be the politicians, influenced by those with power who will determine the basis on which that exit is made. In the end then, it will not be the "will of the people" that will prevail, it will be what the establishment can secure without obviously going against that so called will.

That is very likely to look rather similar to being in the EU IMO, those who think that somehow the EU will suddenly bend over backwards to do a deal are very much mistaken, but no doubt we will see over the next few months.

[swaledale]

I wonder how many remainers were intimidated into voting remain by the lies of immediate tax rises, the threat too peace in Europe, back of the USA queue, crashing of the economy, etc.

I wonder, now that they realise they were conned, whether they're glad that we voted to leave.

Doubt it, from the evidence the majority of those who voted remain were not impressed by the remain camps arguments - as Anag says, 3 of those negative aspects are still possible and theres the autumn statement to come, plus whether its due to Brexit or not, the economy has slowed, companies are witholding investment and the outlook is certainly not rosy at the moment.

[Ram59]

Both the IMF and Moody's have backtracked on their original forcasts. A senior US government official has made the 'back of the queue' statement to be untrue. A senior German official had said that we're too big to be stuck with a Norway type eu lite agreement.

I ask, does any of you believe that because of the UK leaving the eu, there will be a war?

I've got to go now, Elvis has just entered the building! Cameron has asked him to call in.

[ramAnag]

No, I don't think there will be a war just because the UK may leave the EU, but I do think a unified Europe provides the right message to those who seek to destabilise us and serves to help maintain the lasting peace which our continent has largely enjoyed for the last seventy plus years.
Genuinely hope the rest of your observations are well founded...apart from the Elvis bit...never really liked him.

[AngryRam]

70 odd years!
Bosnia and the break up of the former Yugoslavia....
And they are filling the club with similar.

[AngryRam]

Just unfounded Angry. How are my football posts 'conservative'. As I recall it's you who are the FA Cup traditionalist, who reacts badly when we rest players and who got all uppity when we made a mid season change of management.

I've already said I'm not a risk taker so what that bit is about I'm not sure, but I'm not saying all the fault is with the people who voted 'leave'. I'm not even saying that those who voted 'leave' don't have a case. I'm simply saying that we, the British people, were not given enough honest information to be able to fulfil the task we were entrusted with on June 23rd and that to blindly follow an unwise decision is a great deal more foolish than contemplating some sort of rethink.

I can't put it better than BaaLocks when he says...'we shouldn't be imposing this level of change on any country without being clear exactly what we mean by it' or, to come full circle and in your own words, 'we need full details of exactly what exit means'.

My comment re having all the facts was in direct response to Baalocks post and was used to show the impossibility of the task. Read the post again.
My point about you not beng a risk taker, in my opinion, is one of the reasons you wanted to remain.. Status quo.. We have heard a lot from the people who voted exit of how they spent a lot of time looking at both sides of the discussion. Did you look at the positives of leaving or did you shut that door early for fear of the Unknown?
There were some, Adi for example, who did this properly. Went in with an open mind, receptive to both sides and able to cast aside the obvious BS. Again that is just an assumption based on an impression and might be way off.. Hand on heart did you ever really look at the exit argument ?
Was it just easier to stay in and hope we can change from within?

[BaaLocks]

I wonder how many remainers were intimidated into voting remain by the lies of immediate tax rises, the threat too peace in Europe, back of the USA queue, crashing of the economy, etc.

I wonder, now that they realise they were conned, whether they're glad that we voted to leave.

So you should have nothing at all to fear from giving us the opportunity to clarify what 'leave' means once it is known. After all, you will be expecting far more than 52% as a result. And if that is what it is then so be it, I might actually vote leave myself if I have something tangible to vote for rather than spin, red top headlines and Eton old boys duking it out for personal gain.

[roger_ramjet]

Federal EU claims Olympic success - Britain outraged at hijacking of medals in a new EU version of the medals table!

www.medaltracker.eu

Sorry cannot post link properly as posting from phone

[ramAnag]

70 odd years!
Bosnia and the break up of the former Yugoslavia....
And they are filling the club with similar.

Hence the word 'largely'. Not exactly a World War or Europe wide war was it? Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU or EEC as it more likely was then, and those that were helped resolve the conflict by working together..

[ramAnag]

Angry, you're right...I do confess to a natural inclination towards being 'European' rather than an isolated Islander. I also thought about it and concluded that in the interests of Trade, Employment, the Environment, Peace, Freedom to work, study and travel abroad, Security, Influence in Europe and the World and Research Funding that we were better off 'in' than 'out'.
Those were my reasons, not any desire to just maintain the status quo, indeed I would like to see change within the EU and do not support the sometimes unnecessary level of bureaucracy or any move towards an increase in federalisation.
Haven't seen anything since to change my mind yet, but the argument has moved on...the question now is...have we been given enough truthful and objective information to be able to 'ratify' the conclusion reached by 37% of the electorate back in June or are we just afraid to go back and check that the process was sufficiently well informed and not based on a web of deceit.
What are you afraid of?