Is this the end?

[bigroof]

So kids get abused at our football club and the thread discussing it goes into a brexit/working class vs other pissing match.

Work colleagues of mine have told me that they truly think our fan base is deluded as **** and quite disgusting for the way the fans have come across during this time. They go on the Crewe alex hashtag and see our fans are more angry at the media than our own club? I try and tell them otherwise but its hard to disagree. Our club deserves the bad press, people blindly defending the club because? Well I dont know, how can you defend the club at the moment?

The thing is sam, there are facts, and hearsay. We know that Crewe employed a guy who turned out to be a child abuser (although it might've been news to fans under a certain age); we know that he abused young Crewe players whilst in Crewe's employment; we know he was sacked by Crewe. We know that the club have announced an independent inquiry into the whole business. Hopefully that inquiry will establish a timeline of events: who knew what, and when; what was hearsay and what was fact. If/when the club had heard of allegations, perhaps the inquiry will establish whether and when anyone at the club challenged Bennell, (and whose job it was to do so), and whether different arrangements (for his work with young players) were put in place thereafter. Perhaps also, the inquiry will be able to suggest whether Crewe were, at any point, ever able to simply dismiss Bennell at an earlier date, on the basis of allegations and hearsay.
There are so many ifs, buts and maybes at this stage, that it seems pointless - outside of the inquiry - being either judge, or jury.

[thnhouse]

If you want an even bigger example of press bias look at today's BBC sport website

That Chelsea sent Gradi to talk to the family is a clear indication that Chelsea knew in 1974 yet the story they ran is that Gradi was sent to talk to the family.

It's also on the same day two other coaches at big clubs have been arrested ........

[bigroof]

If you want an even bigger example of press bias look at today's BBC sport website

That Chelsea sent Gradi to talk to the family is a clear indication that Chelsea knew in 1974 yet the story they ran is that Gradi was sent to talk to the family.

It's also on the same day two other coaches at big clubs have been arrested ........

Quite right thnhouse; also, why no flagging up of that very point: he was sent, as a relatively junior employee, albeit in his 30s, to smooth things over. Did they tell him what to say?

[ojprice]

The thing is sam, there are facts, and hearsay. We know that Crewe employed a guy who turned out to be a child abuser (although it might've been news to fans under a certain age); we know that he abused young Crewe players whilst in Crewe's employment; we know he was sacked by Crewe. We know that the club have announced an independent inquiry into the whole business. Hopefully that inquiry will establish a timeline of events: who knew what, and when; what was hearsay and what was fact. If/when the club had heard of allegations, perhaps the inquiry will establish whether and when anyone at the club challenged Bennell, (and whose job it was to do so), and whether different arrangements (for his work with young players) were put in place thereafter. Perhaps also, the inquiry will be able to suggest whether Crewe were, at any point, ever able to simply dismiss Bennell at an earlier date, on the basis of allegations and hearsay.
There are so many ifs, buts and maybes at this stage, that it seems pointless - outside of the inquiry - being either judge, or jury.

Quite scary that you think an appropriate response to an allegation a coach is ***ually abusing a child would be 'different arrangements for his work with young players' I would have thought suspend pending investigation and call the ****ing police would be a normal response.

[ojprice]

I wonder how many accounts of gradi covering up or ignoring allegations of child abuse would be enough to convince you? Now in addition to Hamilton Smith a mother has come out today saying she wrote to gradi with concerns about the trips to Blackpool. Then when a victim comes forward and says gradi analogised abuse to 'fondness' and protected a *****phile so he could continue to offend all you want to do is focus on Chelsea's wrong-doing. Are all these people lying? Deluded and I agree with the previous poster, to the point of it being offensive.

[England_First]

I wonder how many accounts of gradi covering up or ignoring allegations of child abuse would be enough to convince you? Now in addition to Hamilton Smith a mother has come out today saying she wrote to gradi with concerns about the trips to Blackpool. Then when a victim comes forward and says gradi analogised abuse to 'fondness' and protected a *****phile so he could continue to offend all you want to do is focus on Chelsea's wrong-doing. Are all these people lying? Deluded and I agree with the previous poster, to the point of it being offensive.

But she didn't say that you vile bitter and twisted piece of shyte. Even the daily mail states that she made no accusations of child abuse, they admit that they don't even know if Dario even read the letter. You are clearly somebody who either hates the football club or your just a plant to try encourage 'debate' on this site, what a sad tit.

[thnhouse]

I wonder how many accounts of gradi covering up or ignoring allegations of child abuse would be enough to convince you? Now in addition to Hamilton Smith a mother has come out today saying she wrote to gradi with concerns about the trips to Blackpool. Then when a victim comes forward and says gradi analogised abuse to 'fondness' and protected a *****phile so he could continue to offend all you want to do is focus on Chelsea's wrong-doing. Are all these people lying? Deluded and I agree with the previous poster, to the point of it being offensive.

You're completely missing the point, when he was at Chelsea he would have had little or nothing to do with this situation, he would almost certainly have been sent by the club to talk to this guys family after an allegation and told what to do/say when he was there. After all HE wasn't sent the letter, CHELSEA were. They were the ones who would have decided how to act. The weight of guilt here does not lie with Gradi but with Chelsea.

In addition to Hamilton Smith?? Hamilton Smith clearly states that Gradi was not at the meeting and was told what to do by the board afterwards.

As for the letter the mum sent to Gradi? Do you think it was likely that mums letter to the manager was given much thought by the club at that point, I wonder if it would have even been read by Gradi. We don't even know if it was really sent.

I get that there's been a lot of press about this recently but there's also been numerous players, including Woodward, who said that Gradi was a decent man.

So to answer your question about how many accounts of Gradi covering up will convince me? One, but that account will have to prove that;
1) he KNEW that serious ***ual abuse was happening
2) He made full attempt to cover it up off his own back
It's going to take a lot more that a mum who remembers sending a letter, a man remembering a 30 year old conversation from when he was under 15 or a meeting Gradi wasn't at.


Someone at Crewe may well be guilty of covering this up, but wait and see the evidence rather than clickbait headlines before we decide who/if anyone to blame.

[Timmy58]

You're completely missing the point, when he was at Chelsea he would have had little or nothing to do with this situation, he would almost certainly have been sent by the club to talk to this guys family after an allegation and told what to do/say when he was there. After all HE wasn't sent the letter, CHELSEA were. They were the ones who would have decided how to act. The weight of guilt here does not lie with Gradi but with Chelsea.

In addition to Hamilton Smith?? Hamilton Smith clearly states that Gradi was not at the meeting and was told what to do by the board afterwards.

As for the letter the mum sent to Gradi? Do you think it was likely that mums letter to the manager was given much thought by the club at that point, I wonder if it would have even been read by Gradi. We don't even know if it was really sent.

I get that there's been a lot of press about this recently but there's also been numerous players, including Woodward, who said that Gradi was a decent man.

So to answer your question about how many accounts of Gradi covering up will convince me? One, but that account will have to prove that;
1) he KNEW that serious ***ual abuse was happening
2) He made full attempt to cover it up off his own back
It's going to take a lot more that a mum who remembers sending a letter, a man remembering a 30 year old conversation from when he was under 15 or a meeting Gradi wasn't at.


Someone at Crewe may well be guilty of covering this up, but wait and see the evidence rather than clickbait headlines before we decide who/if anyone to blame.

Like

[ojprice]

You're completely missing the point, when he was at Chelsea he would have had little or nothing to do with this situation, he would almost certainly have been sent by the club to talk to this guys family after an allegation and told what to do/say when he was there. After all HE wasn't sent the letter, CHELSEA were. They were the ones who would have decided how to act. The weight of guilt here does not lie with Gradi but with Chelsea.

In addition to Hamilton Smith?? Hamilton Smith clearly states that Gradi was not at the meeting and was told what to do by the board afterwards.

As for the letter the mum sent to Gradi? Do you think it was likely that mums letter to the manager was given much thought by the club at that point, I wonder if it would have even been read by Gradi. We don't even know if it was really sent.

I get that there's been a lot of press about this recently but there's also been numerous players, including Woodward, who said that Gradi was a decent man.

So to answer your question about how many accounts of Gradi covering up will convince me? One, but that account will have to prove that;
1) he KNEW that serious ***ual abuse was happening
2) He made full attempt to cover it up off his own back
It's going to take a lot more that a mum who remembers sending a letter, a man remembering a 30 year old conversation from when he was under 15 or a meeting Gradi wasn't at.


Someone at Crewe may well be guilty of covering this up, but wait and see the evidence rather than clickbait headlines before we decide who/if anyone to blame.

As opposed to non serious ***ual abuse of children? Does such a thing exist? False - according to Hamilton Gradi was informed the following day and stated he had 'no problem' with Bennell. If someone said to you an allegation had been made that a member of your staff had been ***ually abusing children would your response be you had 'no problem.' According to the victim, Gradi said Heath was fond of the boys and on this occasion the fondness had overstepped the mark - overstepped the Mark how? As for the letter, it is (yet another) example of how this was brought to the attention of the club and was ignored.

[ojprice]

But she didn't say that you vile bitter and twisted piece of shyte. Even the daily mail states that she made no accusations of child abuse, they admit that they don't even know if Dario even read the letter. You are clearly somebody who either hates the football club or your just a plant to try encourage 'debate' on this site, what a sad tit.

You're right I am part of the global media conspiracy against lowly old Crewe 'Inglund furst.' I can see by your name that you are incapable of conceiving the world outside of the lens of your narrow tribal affiliations so there's little purpose discussing the issues further with you. You clearly value loyalty to the football club over justice for victims.