In a nutshell...like!
Roger, don't you think if we abolished income tax and replaced it with a 'simple wealth tax' then all the professional financial filibusters and personal accountants - absolutely no personal slur intended - would simply change their aim accordingly to hide real wealth and make their clients look poorer, meaning that we'd just be back to square one?
I think we can only easily compare like for like, these rich people and big corporations are on a different planet to us and we can't relate to them. Whereas, people who have had similar opportunities to ourselves, we can relate to and when we see them just take, take all the time, it's annoying. Tonight is my snooker night down the club and there is one guy there who openly flaunts his lifestyle against us mugs. If I say "I better get going, I've got to get up early for work tomorrow", he always replies that he's got to get early as well, at about 10.30, or maybe not. Then occasionally he'll come in a say that he was sent for a job interview, 'bloody cheek', he made sure he didn't get the job. He'll have his usual 5 or 6 pints, after being to another club beforehand and he's out most nights of the week.
Understand your annoyance completely Ram59, but as your anecdote reveals you're not actually comparing 'like with like', you're comparing yourself with a skiver simply because you happen to inhabit the same environment on occasions. You - presumably - may not often share the same circles as the rich and famous, you may not be as familiar with their lifestyles but surely that is no excuse to ignore the swindlers amongst them who actually cost society far more than those regularly exposed in certain newspapers or programmes such as 'Benefits Street'. Think Triz is 100% right on this one.
You really are the oddest combination of Nigel Farage and Wolfie Smith aren't you Tricky? 'They keep quiet and don't mock in our faces', oh well that's alright then...actually they are much worse and the 'can pay, won't pay' mentality is infinitely more subversive in terms of the well being of society.
Last edited by ramAnag; 18-01-2017 at 08:55 PM.
Not really ramanag, put me face to face with one of them and I'll rip them a new arse hole. That's the problem, my voice is doing nothing about this.
The suits in Parliament need to sort that out. And quite rightly.
My objection is when I see it in front of me from someone on my ladder
I disagree about the relative costs to society, and its simple maths. Sorry to use an anecdote.
Take 200 skivers. Costs to 'the country' per year, lets say £50,000 each. Multiply by 200, £10m cost to 'the country'
the next bit's the anecdote
I know, vaguely, one high net worth individual. He made his fortune in car dealing and motorsport and now has a desk worth more than my house. I'm vaguely mates with his gofer/flunky/wingman, who is a qualified tax accountant, and although he doesn't do that job for the HNW, is fully aware that the HNW employs people specifically to 'minimise' his personal and corporate tax liability, and he (legally) pays a lot less than if he just threw his numbers onto his self assessment form on 30th January, its fair to say. Let's say his investment in minimising tax 'costs' 'the country' £10m.
So looking at the debit side it's level pegging
Lets look at contribution.
Skivers - nil.
HNW - He remains resident in UK for tax purposes I believe, so I guess will still pay a lot of UK tax. His company/companies accounts (last time I looked) declare tens of millions of tax liability. As an end-user of lots of products and services, his company shells out tens of millions more in VAT. His company, which wouldn't be there but for him as he started from zero, employs 300 people in UK, think of the PAYE and NIC coming from that. His company keeps a quite extensive supply chain going. He also runs a very generous apprenticeship scheme, gives time as well as money to charitable causes and uses his influence to persuade other slightly less well-heeled folk to do the same. By the way I'm not licking his **** here, he has a reputation as being a real ******* in business, although on the few occasions I've met him he's been very friendly and his secretary always provides little Danish pastries at meetings. And the bottom line is I'm guessing just in tax take he generates tens of millions of income for 'the country'
Anyway, back to the point, and I can only reel off this one anecdotal comparison, I'm sorry but the pragmatist in me says I can live with the actions of the HNW guy, but not the skivers, just on the maths of it. Both the HNW and the skivers have their hands in the till, but its actually the HNW guy who filled the till up in the first place.
NOTE: The above isn't about corporate crims, they should be brought to justice the same as anyone else.