O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[Lasterman]

Be careful Lasterman, you'll be dubbed an apologist with that kind of statement from some on here...

Well that would be a misinterpretation. I do think you need to try to understand how these people think though, and what drives them, before coming up with solutions that might work. Needless to say, you can't just round up 4,000 'suspects' and intern them. Nor can you deport what, for the most part, could turn out to be largely British citizens. I don't think recognising that makes you either a liberal or an apologist.

[millmoormagic]

Well that would be a misinterpretation. I do think you need to try to understand how these people think though, and what drives them, before coming up with solutions that might work. Needless to say, you can't just round up 4,000 'suspects' and intern them. Nor can you deport what, for the most part, could turn out to be largely British citizens. I don't think recognising that makes you either a liberal or an apologist.

Me neither, and for once, i agree 100% with Kempo's post above.

I don't purport to know the short term answers to attacks like this, i'm sure that if the security services had any inkling then they'd have picked this bloke up and stopped it. The point is that we cannot as a decent, civilised society bow down to these murdering b astards, but by the same token we cannot punish a whole community either, i'm absolutely adamant that the muslim community could, and should, do much more, but ostracising them does no good for anyone.

[Ellis_D]

Me neither, and for once, i agree 100% with Kempo's post above.

I don't purport to know the short term answers to attacks like this, i'm sure that if the security services had any inkling then they'd have picked this bloke up and stopped it. The point is that we cannot as a decent, civilised society bow down to these murdering b astards, but by the same token we cannot punish a whole community either, i'm absolutely adamant that the muslim community could, and should, do much more, but ostracising them does no good for anyone.

Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

[millmoormagic]

Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.

[Turfmoorspirit]

I agree with this guy. A realist..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rket4xvu_ac

[Ellis_D]

Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

[millmoormagic]

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

[Ellis_D]

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

Well, no, actually, millmoor, you can't try to twist this as you usually do, because it's there in black and white what I said:

"This scumbag was known as a potential terrorist. EVERY single person on this list should be rounded up, and either jailed indefinitely or deported, simple. B0llocks to their human rights. What about the human rights of all the people who died? What about the human rights of every innocent, decent man, woman and child in this country who deserves to live a free, safe life. I would actually string them up, never mind lock them up, but locking them up or deporting them will be a start."

It's clear to anyone that from that post - and my earlier and later posts - that I believe we as a country should be locking them up or deporting them, but that I said I would actually string them up. With the obvious connotation if I were in charge of the country.

And no, I don't believe that is what is already happening. These people aren't on this list because they look a bit foreign or they have grown a beard, I know that doesn't suit YOUR narrative, but that's the truth.

Just four thousand out of three million Muslims are being monitored as potential terrorists. It's quite a small percentage, and for that reason, I'd say they aren't just monitoring people willy nilly. However, because of the Human Rights Act, and the fact people like you would scream and shout about abuses of their human rights, we are powerless to act, until we have concrete evidence. Which usually comes in the form of a terror attack. And that is too late. And that is why people want preventative measures, even if that does mean some of those 4,000 people might be innocent. Although bearing in mind 50,000 Muslims in Britain alone downloaded the ISIS terrorist handbook explaining to them how to make bombs and kill and maim as many as possible, I would suggest that 4,000 being under suspicion is far too low a figure.

What I am suggesting, and if you'd like to put it to a referendum, like your little Brexit poll that the arrogant leftists were so sure they would win, I guarantee WELL over half the country would support deporting or indefinitely imprisoning all 4,000 people on this list until we can prove they were never going to be involved in Islamic terrorism or recruiting people to be involved in Islamic extremism, or until the Islamic terrorism across the world largely comes to a halt, whichever comes first.

Millmoor, you are clearly in the naive belief that you are right, but you thought the same about Brexit and Trump. The majority of people on here believe it's actions not words that are needed, the majority side with me, just as the majority of the country would.

I know that doesn't suit your narrative, I know it hurts to think you are in the minority with your views, but that's the truth of the matter.

[Ellis_D]

.......................

[Neville_Davitt]

This article is well worth a read.

Mehdi Hasan - Reactions to Manchester Bombing Show How Anti-Muslim Bigots Are “Useful Idiots” for ISIS (May 24 2017)

“IF YOU WANT to defeat ISIS, listen to former ISIS hostage Nicolas Henin. The group is “heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia … [and] drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media,” the French journalist wrote in November 2015 in the wake of the Paris attacks. “Central to their world view is the belief that communities cannot live together with Muslims, and every day their antennae will be tuned towards finding supporting evidence.”

Get that? Islamophobia plays right into the hands of ISIS. Wittingly or unwittingly, anti-Muslim bigots have become recruiting sergeants for a group they profess to hate and claim to want to destroy. The Islamophobes, to borrow a line from Lenin, are ISIS’s useful idiots.

Consider their reaction to the latest terrorist atrocity: Monday’s suicide bombing at a concert hall in Manchester, England, which killed 22 people, including an 8-year-old girl. Could ISIS, which claimed the horrific attack, have asked for a better response from its useful idiots on the British right?

MailOnline columnist and talk radio host Katie has a long history of demonizing Muslims and took to Twitter in the hours after the bombing to demand a “final solution” (later deleting her Nazi-esque tweet after being reported to the police). Hopkins, who once called Islam “the problem” because it is a “backward religion,” also tweeted that “Western men” should: “Stand up. Rise Up. Demand Action.”

Allison Pearson, a columnist with Britain’s biggest-selling broadsheet newspaper, the Daily Telegraph, who has in the past described Muslim immigrants as coming from “some backward culture,” chimed in too. “We need a State of Emergency as France has,” she tweeted in response to the Manchester massacre. “We need internment of thousands of terror suspects now to protect our children.” Innocent until proven guilty? Please.

Then there is Tommy Robinson*, former leader of the far-right English Defence League (think of a British Richard Spencer but, again, with a lesser intellect and a long history of criminality and violence). Robinson arrived in Manchester on Tuesday to accuse British Muslim residents of that city of being “enemy combatants.” They want to “kill you, maim you and destroy you,” he told his YouTube audience of fellow far-right bigots.

You can almost hear them cheering in Raqqa. ISIS wants to drive a wedge between Muslim communities and wider Western society; it wants to pit Muslims against non-Muslims. Nor is this a secret: The group’s leaders have admitted as much in their own publications. More than two years ago, in February 2015, the ISIS online magazine, Dabiq, made clear that one of the main goals of the group’s brutal attacks in the West was to destroy the “gray zone” — of peaceful co-existence between Muslims and non-Muslims — and provoke a backlash. “The Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize and adopt the [infidel] religion … or they … [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens.”

This ISIS grand plan has always required the (perhaps unwitting) support of the group’s useful idiots in the West, the Islamophobes, whose harsh rhetoric and actions help drive marginalized and alienated Muslims into the wide open arms of the jihadists.

The purveyors of anti-Muslim hatred are, of course, unwilling to admit to the central role that they play in the radicalization process. “The terrorists couldn’t give a stuff what I tweet or write or say,” insisted Hopkins in her MailOnline column the day after the Manchester bombing. “They couldn’t care less if we stand divided or pretend to be united.”If only that were true. Forget Dabiq. Consider instead what Arie Kruglanski, a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland who studies radicalization, said after the Paris attacks in November 2015. A growing climate of Islamophobia is what ISIS is “aiming for — to provoke communities to commit actions against Muslims,” he told the Washington Post. “Then ISIS will be able to say, ‘I told you so. These are your enemies, and the enemies of Islam.’”

Another psychology professor who studies Muslim extremists, Jocelyn Bélanger of the University of Quebec in Montreal, agrees. “When people feel a loss of significance — when they are humiliated — that propels them to join a radical group,” he told the Post.
The Islamophobes see themselves as politically incorrect truth-tellers; as bold and blunt opponents of the radicals and the extremists. The reality is that they are the accomplices, the unpaid agents, of those very same radicals and extremists. Every terrorist needs a Katie Hopkins. It is one of the great ironies of our time — those who shout loudest about the threat posed by ISIS are often the biggest propagandists for ISIS.

As my colleague Murtaza Hussain has observed, it is “perverse and counterproductive to lump [the West’s Muslims] together with ISIS and blame them for the group’s actions.” To do so is to “grant the Islamic State a propaganda coup, implicitly endorsing the group’s narrative of Muslims and Westerners collectively at war with one another.”

When ISIS claims that it represents “true” Islam, or depicts Islam as a violent religion, or suggests Western Muslims owe their loyalties to the group and not to the West, the Islamophobes fall over one another to endorse each and every one of these points. Shamefully, the latter don’t pay any attention, for example, to the Muslim cab drivers who ferried survivors home from the Manchester Arena for free, or to the Muslim hospital doctors who worked through the night to treat the wounded. That there must have been young Muslim fans of Ariana Grande who also happened to be attending her concert in Manchester on Monday night when the bomb exploded is perhaps also beyond their comprehension.

The fact of the matter is that ISIS wants to sow division and discord in Western societies, and its useful idiots in the West are only too happy to help it do so. “Cohesion, tolerance — it is not what [ISIS members] want to see,” pointed out former hostage Henin back in 2015. “What they fear,” he concluded, “is unity.”

*Tommy Robinson (aka; Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon / Andrew McMaster / Paul Harris). Just who is this upstanding moral crusader?

- 2003 Convicted for drunken assault of an off-duty police officer who intervened to stop a domestic incident between Robinson and his then girlfriend. Served a 12-month prison sentence.
- 2010, Involved in a fight between supporters of Luton Town and Newport County in Luton. Robinson reportedly led the group of Luton fans, and played an integral part in starting a 100-man brawl, during which he chanted "EDL till I die".
- July 2011, Convicted of having used "threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour" on the night of the incident. He was given a 12-month community rehabilitation order and a three-year ban from attending football matches. Also sentenced to 150 hours' unpaid work, and ordered to pay £650 in costs
- September 2011, Arrested after an EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets for breach of bail conditions
- September 2011, Convicted of common assault after head-butting a fellow EDL member at a rally in Blackburn in April that year. Given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.
- October 2012, Arrested and held on the charge of having entered the U.S. illegally. Robinson pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court to using someone else's passport. Sentenced in January to 10 months imprisonment.
- 28 November 2012, Charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by misrepresentation in relation to a mortgage application. Robinson pleaded guilty to two charges in November 2013. On 23 January 2014 he was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

This is the guy that the creator of this thread venerates so much; a common thug and a conman, although I’m sure Ellis will claim it’s all the fault of the leftard judiciary, press etc. Robinson is simply an opportunist who has now gate-crashed the aftermaths of the Westminster and Manchester attacks, intruding on people’s grief, in order to spread his anti-muslim message and fuel division and hate. And he’s pleasant with it. When politely asked in Manchester for his press credentials, Robinson apparently told the requestor to “f**k off”….nice.